Last Epoch gave me a sour and sweet taste

This will be a SUPER LONG post , you have been warned.

Before I start keep in mind this is how I see the story/design/end game etc.
I will explain what I like in a ARPG/what i dislike in LE and that is by NO MEAN how
the game should be design , everyone have different opinions ,what I like most people
might find anoing or what I hate some people might like and so on.

I used to be a “no-lifer” playing POE 12-16 h daily on new league starts.
I consider now myself a semi-casual (new job , new baby , no free time essentially ) but might not even be casual compared with other game types because i played LE for more then 3 weeks since i purchase it around 3-4 h daily and 6-10 in weekends when i had free time.
Same amount as the working hours i put at my job so i don’t think it can be called casual at this point.

*First impressions * 

Performance is really bad , I barely get 42 fps on low settings while my gpu is 100% usage and max temp , I’m even afraid I will damage it in a time when an upgrade is impossible due to cryto currency raising the gpu’s prices to unreal values.
Meanwhile my processor is at 2-6% usage same as RAM.

Some areas/mobs look quite good but feels like there is no immersion ,it looks like
someone took some random assets and made the acts/mobs ,while they do look better then I expected it feels too generic and "lack of soul ".

The story:is there even a story ? i did campaign 2 times I cant remember 1 NPC or quest or areas/bosses .The only boss I remember is the Huge crab because I died 100 times on first run.
That being said I care less about how a game looks/story feels .I play this type of game for progression and loot .

The good part is i wasn’t so hyped to play a game this badly when i had free time in a long long time.

General game design :

This is a tough one because I have really mixed feelings about a lot of decisions.

Skills having their own trees it feels refreshing and cool way to customize your playstyle
I would like to see way more skills 4 skills per class is really underwhelming and doesn’t leave much room for build diversity.

Passive skills while some have really good interactions/synergys/mechanics like triggering stuff ,the echo thing on void knight ,there are way to many generic stuff like pure crit chance pure stats and life/mana.
It gives a false feeling of “choice” because if you go lighting build you will pick lighting damage not cold or if you are going critical build you will pick critical nodes etc.
Would love to see more cool interactions and keep the raw stats/power on gear.

Crafting : Oh boy oh boy ,this feel so good and so BAD at the same time.
I need 3 additional pages to talk more in detail what i dislike/doesnt make sense to me
but on short is it feels more bad in general then good like 75/25% and current state wont do it for me .

Item affixes : Again feels refreshing to see new stats types and general stats like INT/STR etc actually feels good for once in a APRG, they feel really balanced .

Boss design : Overall feels really good ,good telegraphed skills ,but most especially the Shade drops feel underwhelming.

END GAME :

I know there are more end game system planed so my feedback is on the current state of the end game.

I just started empowered monoliths , i think i finished 2 but i start to see the things that i don’t like and already feel burned that’s why i made this post , as i don’t think i will play more in the current game state.

I never liked infinite scaling content as it gives me no reason to invest into a build when i know it will eventually do no damage or just die because it gets too tough NO MATTER how much min-max it has.

Arena seems fine for this and for people who like pushing builds/ladders .1 infinite scaling game mechanic is ENOUGH .

Echo modifiers seems INSANELY overturned as they can stack ,and it is so LAZY and boring way of making content harder.

Corruption already gives mobs hp/damage why there are so many damage/hp modifiers on echoes.
Most modifiers do the same CORE thing gives mores more hp and more damage:
Critical strike avoidance/all resistances/increased damage and hp etc.

Cool and interesting modifiers : Armour shred on hit ,regenerate while not damaged (this is really hard on bosses ) ailments chill/shock/slow etc.

Not only its boring but some stacking mods gives mobs way to spiking damage like critical chance.And i think mobs damage stats need a review as i did some echoes with 2-3 damage mods and critical and got 1 shot in each one while my build has max res around 29% armour and like 2k+ EHP playing a mana before life build.
Then decided to do an echo reset and went for a Shade and had exact same echo modifiers except some slow on hit and facetank every boss mechanic.
When a white mob 1 shots you and a boss does nothing close to that damage its a big sign something is not balanced right.

I think game needs a more smooth difficulty scaling because some of the echo modifiers make no sense : for example 2 modifiers with damage and hp/damage makes then do DOUBLE damage this means exactly the same as you have 50%HP as before.
What is the point to use mechanics like the 5-25% less damage taken items/skills when mobs do double and more damage ?

I think corruption should be the ONLY mechanic that give mods extra hp and damage and make echoes do interesting things like ailments/armour shred or design new cool mechanics.
Current state feels so weird you either take no damage or get 1 shot ,this is what i hate with a passion in POE and seems its the same problem here.

Exalted items and loot in general :
Way way to many items drop , i had to tweek my loot filted more then 20 times because to much crap drops. and it was a strict end game one in the first place keep that in mind.

When i started empowered monoliths i was so excited to see i had like 5 nodes with contains X exalted items.

Was so disappointed because i did not find 1 usable item ,i understand some mods have different weight(drop rates ) but this is NOT FUN as i swear all my items had stun chance or other unusable stat atm.

Double and + exalted items drop rate is way to low .
I asked some people who played INSANE amount of hours like Boardman and Lizzard on stream if they ever seen a triple exalted items , both NEVER dropped 1.

While i understand triple and quadtriple exalted items should be something super rare
the chances of them to be actually good is close to zero.

There are currently 375 affiex ignoring idols so lets calculate how many different mods combination an item can have :
n!/(n-r)! where n= number of affixes and r=number of mods an item can have that is 4 affixes atm

*n!/(n-r)! =19460529000 * THAT is 20 BILLION outcomes, number is way smaller due to some mods being exclusive to some items types but you get the idea .
The chances to get a insane triple/quad exalted item is close to ZERO.
That is a super underwhelming feeling .

People might counter argument you don’t need perfect items because you only need 1 good mod and just CRAFT them.

Well crafting feels really bad atm .
It feels well balanced when leveling crafting random crap for upgrades BUT feels extremely bad to ruin that tier 7 exalted item when you just put 1 mod on it and it shatters at 92% success rate.

End game grind is way to slow and unrewarding atm.
The fact that you need to run different monoliths so many times to get your desired blessing and even when you get it the rolls makes a huge impact , so farming it again and again its just too much burning out.
The biggest disappointment is when i found out you need to redo this on every new build you wanna try.
This is the most anti-reroll new builds mechanics that i ever saw .
There are no chase items and exalt drop rate/crafting feels bad atm.

If there will be seasons/leagues in the future and the game has the current drop rate and balance around how much grind is to get blessings NO WAY i will play more than 1 build , its too much time-consuming.

Every people i know including myself play up to 1-2 months at most in new leagues before burn out/taking a break /playing other games.
Taking that in consideration some of the balance makes no sense to me and even MORE if the devs expect us to play more then 1 build per season.

Even if you play 16h+ daily i don’t see any chance to min-max a build in 1-2 months with how grindy it is.

Games shouldn’t be balanced around casuals but balancing stuff around playing nonstop is even worse.

I did REALLY enjoyed playing so far , i honestly didn’t have this much fun since the old D2 days.
But the end game grind is too long and unrewarding for me to enjoy past this point atm.

I will keep my eyes on future updates as this is my last hope for ARPG’s to be great again as i lost all hope with POE (same problem over-grind not rewarding/loot is useless).

TL.DR:
I really enjoyed the game till empowered monoliths when i realized is way to much grind for me and crafting is underwhelming and not fun.
To quote a big streamer : Games used to make us want to waste our time , now they just waste our time

I still have high hopes for the game as the core is good just needs major work to be a really great game.

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Not gonna quote anything because it would be too long, but i agree on a lot of things.

The game is pleasant to play, especially if you’re tired of POE like you or me, E.G. my right wrist was starting to fall apart on POE after 3k+ hours, i’m simply physically done with this game, not even talking about the rest, it clearly forbids me to play it anymore, , here in LE, pick up a monolith’s option, launch the toon, complete the objective in 30s/1min30, pick up a few loots which survived your item filter and a few shards, open the chest and here we go again.

Add a Shade/echoe boss sometimes, increase corruption, i’m ok with most of that.

But holy crap, crafting is turning me crazy right now, we basically have no control at all on anything that happens, it’s just an insane session of “close your eyes and SLAM IT” at every step of crafting, there are so many wrong things with current crafting, i can easily guess they’re planning to add rarer and better currencies in the style of POE to compensate for that terrible crafting base, but at the same time, if they’re planning so… Why even inflict us this pain of a system without what is clearly missing to make it decently work ? Fracture Epoch not fun and interesting EHG. :confused:

Anyway…

Also, yeah, unshared monoliths progression between travellers is really boring too, but i really believe (=hope) they’re gonna improve things with that. Fingers crossed.

And yeah, about the story, it’s… Hmmm… Well, not really the best storymode i’ve ever played in an ARPG. Lacklusters musics do not help at all with immersion (i’ve turned them down long ago to be honest, gave them another try with 8.2 but most of the new ones arn’t interesting at all to me, and some of them like the new desert’s OST are just ridiculous) and NPCs without any charism (Alric is cool imo, but he’s kinda alone to be so and, of course, he quickly dies, sigh… And wtf is Yulia even trying to achieve ? Nothing with her plans makes any sense, making the character kinda despicable to me), voice acting mostly is a poor placeholder for now…

Also yes, general cartoonish design doesn’t help too, a lot of them will change i guess, the remains of the emporor in Eterra’s Temple for example is interesting, but god dammit EHG, why all of our travellers are hobbits look-alike ? :smiley:

But well,more seriously, these can mostly be early access specific issues, things will probably change a lot more, musics can be replaced, models reworked, i don’t really care, the game remains promising, but i have a few concerns i didn’t have before 8.2 about general design. Slowing down player’s progression with monoliths and major nerf of crafting while the game isn’t any close of commercial release, for example…I don’t know, it’s strange, and gives me a lot of POE’s taste after TenCent clearly took everything in control. Let’s add a few strange nerfs… I don’t know, is there more to come on the same path EHG ? Is this the road we’re following ?

I dont get it, if you have played PoE for 3k hours you should be used to harsh disappointment and wasting currency on nothing, having XP taken from you from things out of your control, maps disappear, scammers etc - this games crafting in comparison is ridiculously easy

I play PoE solely on a controller with a 3rd party program for the last…20? leagues, approx 4 years. I do combat on a controller and do trades with mouse/kb. I was ready to quit PoE as well until I started using a controller. With a controller I can personally play for 12-16 hours a day if I wanted without an issue - i cannot play PoE on mouse/kb anymore not only do I not know my keys I have no skill with using a mouse anymore to game with

Community Showcase - [Mod] PoEController - update 25/11/2020 - Forum - Path of Exile - this is the program I use, not updated anymore but still works fine

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I will agree with you that the empowered monoliths seem pretty underwhelming right now. I am not even really sure what the goal is once you get the gear since you have to grind out all of the endgame content just to aquire the gear you need to min max your build and then what? I know games in beta and I hope it does two things before full release. Continue to improve the skill tree and itemization system, as of right now it feels like there is more things in the game that discourage build creativity. And give us stuff to do with our builds besides making it really far in arena. It is the lack of end game content and the focus on arena that is making everyone run EQ Werebear or Shadow Daggers and just taking away from the diversity of the game in general. One of the reasons why I enjoy ARPGs or looters in general is the chance to play the same game as someone else but still be able to differentiate myself from others who are playing the game. This is kind of tough when everyone is running the same 5 builds that are broken and guaranteed to push you far in arena regardless of skill.

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Apart from the glyphs that reduce the instability gained (though I’d like it a lot more if it guaranteed a reduction rather potentially giving no benefit) or reduce the chance of a fracture by 25%

Fracturing is the required downside for being able to choose what mods you get on an item rather than just screaming into the void & hoping you don’t get 1-5 mods that are bad.

If LE’s relatively deterministic crafting didn’t have a downside like fracturing then it’d just be an item editor which wouldn’t be good for the game.

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I’m seeing too many people on this forum who don’t seem to understand this point.

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Without disrespect to the devs but why games even need crafting ?

Doesnt bring any value to complexity or fun factor.

I think LE would have felt undoubtedly better if drop rates of double/triple/quad exalted items were actually on sanity levels.

Test 1 million people what feels better crafting a end game item (no matter the methods LE or POE way ) or dropping that insane item ?

ARPG’s used to be about loot HUNTING , LE crafting is decent as items dropped still have some value even with only 1-2 good afixes , but still game designers need to stop reinventing the weel and just use what was always successful good loot and interesting item/affix design .

And about LE crafting , while I do agree fracture needs to exist , why some runes like
remove X afix give instability when this rune has the BEST DOWNSIDE from them all it literly has a 25-75% chance to ruin your items depending on the mods it has .

Or why the rune that rerolls implicits adds fracture ? i cannot count how many good items I found and I destroyed them trying to reroll the implicit .

I think runes that rerolls afixes ranges and implicits showdnt EVER give instability .
Just make them rare because that is like super end game tweeking of your gear.

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That’s a very personal opinion that I don’t think all that many people would agree with.

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Exactly its an OPINION , do i need to edit all my takes and opinions in my post for ex :
Doesnt bring any value to complexity or fun factor FOR ME .

Do you know most of humanity biggest theories were solved by starting to prove why they are wrong .
Ancient greek philosophers were gathering in cultural spaces and were just contradicting all day leading to major breakthroughs .

So explain me why you think crafting is better then dropping end game items .

That would show you’re telling your opinion, instead of show you’re telling the truth. But that’s another debate.

7 foreign languages speaker and self-though english.
Im failing to see how my post is a statement of TRUTH when its all feedback , aka how i feel about current game deisgn/state.

I even specified I will explain what I like in a ARPG/what i dislike in LE and that is by NO MEAN how the game should be designed

That is not written as an opinion, it’s written as a fact or a truth.
But I’ll stop here, I don’t want to derail the topic, because your feedback is important.

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You certainly don’t need to go that far, but as Shtrak pointed out, your statement read more as something that you simply believed to be true at a general level, as evidenced by this statement:

Here you seem to be providing what you see as evidence to your position, that not only do you think that crafting is a negative mechanic in ARPGs (as opposed to just increasing drop rates) but that the majority of people would also agree with you. So I was disagreeing specifically with the notion that your position is anything close to a majority position. My evidence is that in my 2+ years of being on these forums I don’t remember any posts suggesting that crafting should be removed from the game. There have been many posts showing their frustrations with crafting, but every one I can recall made suggestions to improve the system, not remove it altogether.

So I reiterate: I think your opinion, while perfectly valid for you to have, is a position that most players would disagree with, and so maybe it’s not the best solution to making the game better.

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Good points i understand .
Not native English speaker , its really hard to put 100% of my thoughts into words when your vocabulary is at 10% in English proficiency .

What i meant is End Game shouldn’t be 100% crafting as it feels atm it is .

I will repeat current crafting feels amazing while leveling and in early monoliths.

Once you start crafting end game upgrades and in specific exalted items it doesn’t feel fun at all .

I understand this is closed beta but game needs chase items badly .

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Sure thing, and no worries about your English. I can definitely understand how difficult being a non native speaker to a language can make expressing yourself.

I agree, crafting on endgame items, especially exalts, does not feel good right now. The system has so much RNG that even when I get what should be a really awesome exalt my immediate reaction is “that’s great but it’s going to break early in crafting anyways”. I don’t think that’s a good place for endgame crafting to be, so I do hope it gets improved upon.

I know the devs are aware of the issue and have made numerous statements about how crafting feels, and wanting to make it feel better for players, so hopefully they come up with something good!

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Thats great to hear they are aware of the “problem” .

Not sure what they wanna do with trade as i juststarted fallowing LE but maybe really strong items might not be so rare when more people play and can trade.
But at the same point introduces new problems as BIS gear shodunt be the one you trade for in my opinion .Then it will become a gold farming end game strat .

I remember POE had huge itemization problems in really old closed beta or maybe was alpha when i started .

Alot changed when trading was introduced so we shall see.

Dont remember where i read here or on reddit was something like the devs vision of end game gearing is 1 unique 2-3 sets items and rest rares .
That seems really interesting just uniques seems really underwhelming atm.

And new tier Legendaries ? need more info now …

I would rather agree. I would not go as far as “not fun at all”, but somewhere close to that.

I do take offence to the word ‘crafting’ in these games, its not crafting, theres no skill level involved with my character and they NEVER GET BETTER AT IT, its just gambling and in this game you just have way way more chances to win but still cannot actually determine the result. the game does that only - even gambling at a casino irl or betting or something has an innate skill level attached. LE’s is ‘just dont click Health regen instead of Added HP by mistake’ thats…it. ive done this …

Even PoE’s crafting has a lot of important decisions each step of the way to force/influence the outcome you want

I used to play Ultima Online as a kid, where you actually crafted things to gain Skill level in that field. you wanted 100 Blacksmithing? you need to craft 21000 daggers and get 0.1 skill increase occasionally until Grandmaster

my character has used hundresds of rune of removals and he still is just as bad as when they started

I dont remember that, because if thats the case itemization in PoE has been boring until influenced items came along, even though they added jewel sockets, threshold jewels etc but the main issue was certain uniques never dropped - Shavronnes was 100ex…its now roughly 50-70c on league start, 6L shavs is 7-8ex in first week. its basically nothing

Exalted items should of just been not added at all and an item which CANNOT now be called an ‘Exalted Orb’…(why ehg why) could be found extremely rarely that improves one of your Tiers to 6 and can actually go to 7 however I would of made it each item can only be upgraded twice and also has to pass the instability to not fracture

so instead of farming for exalted items, you farm for…exalted …stones which you save until you have an item ready. Possibly the same weapon you have been using for weeks to try and upgrade it

I understand the idea, but i think that’s exactly what the devs didn’t want. The thing about PoE is that 100% of the Bis stuff is crafted from a blank base, you will never, no matter how many years you play ever drop a bis item in poe, because it’s literally impossible (double influenced/elevated/essence, etc doesn’t drop).
I think the thought process behind the exalted items, is that no matter how strong crafting is, you need to have a chance of dropping the best items, you can’t simple craft from a blank base into a bis item. And personally i like this balanced approach more than POE full crafting approach where gear drops doesn’t matter at all.

Also in LE at least you are gambling towards a specific result, if you are trying to raise the crit mult of your item, there are only 2 possible outcomes, either it improves it’s crit mult or it bricks. While in POE it’s completely gambling all the way, you have little to no impact on the results of your gambling (harvest had a little of it, but it’s gone already anyway). Furthermore poe has at least one more big RNG layer that you have to defeat (correct affix, correct tier, correct roll). LE has only two RNG layers (tier and rolls). Even further poe did some “weighting” questionable choices that made some combination of affixes have literally one in ten billion odds of ever occurring (and it’s not even a hyperbole lol).

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Nor should we improve RNG gods would punish us for certain.