you are wrong here on MULTIPLE levels
1:map running is best done with semi-tanky characters, where dps is generally unimportant as map creatures are not very tanky, aoe and mobility matters most here, but not dying to random monster attacks is also a concideration in almost every PoE mapping build
2:if bosses die REALLY fast, you do not need to be tanky, most of the top tier bossers of PoE kill the boss before the mechanic happens, but die the first second they go into maps due to lack of defences
No, just going to end of mono, kill shade, repeat is strictly OPTIMAL pathing, both for getting to see the bosses sooner prior to empowered AND for gear farming in empowered due to the effect of corruption.
The SAME sub-objective every time, I am talking of changing sub objectives
I do not want this, because skipping the problem is just a band-aid on the problem itself, I would rather fix the problem.
I don’t know tbh, that’s definitely a question for @EHG_Mike or @EHG_Kain. I get where both sides are coming from.
They already are, they will kill the boss significantly slower than a good build. The question, I think, is how much should they be “punished”? Should it be a linear response or para/hyperbolic? How much should the difficulty of bosses push people to only play meta builds?
This I would like a lot. I get bored before i get to empowered monos.
A glass cannon, by definition, is a character that will deal absurd amounts of damage but will die to almost every hit. If they get hit by a Sirus blast in the face or get grazed by Shaper’s blast and don’t die, they’re not a glass cannon. KB is only a glass cannon in PoE if you compare with the rest of the builds. Due to power creep, I don’t think glass cannons are possible in PoE anymore, not unless you make a sucky build.
I haven’t played PoE since Scourge league. Things have changed a lot. These days, every single character refills their health bar in less than a second, something which, at the time, only a very few select builds could do. Every build now has multiple layers of defense easily slapped on them. At that time, if you got hit by any boss mechanic (meaning uber bosses, not map bosses) you almost always died, unless your character was a bosser, meaning, it was tanky and had multiple layers of defense.
Power creep changed PoE to the point where there really aren’t glass cannons anymore, not in the classical definition. It’s way easier to not die to a single hit.
Just below that I also advocated for some change that gives us more things to do in echoes.
As I’ve mentioned before, no matter what you come up with, someone will always complain
This is actually a good point. And I think the difference between LE and PoE in this regard is that LE just needs more diverse endgame mechanics. In PoE, if you don’t want to kill bosses, you have plenty of non-meta builds that can do a lot of different mechanics. If you want to kill bosses, you look for a meta build.
LE just needs more content so that if your build can’t kill bosses, or kill them reliably and efficiently, you can still do other stuff with them. Right now, there are 3 mechanics available. If you don’t like arena (like many players don’t) and you can’t do bosses, you’re stuck with just monos.
I’m not sure the ability to kill bosses should be a given. I also don’t think meta builds should be measuring stick – they are builds outside the ‘norm’, and are either performing far too efficiently, or are taking advantage of (a) unintended mechanic(s). Bosses should be tuned around an average build, with full T4 gear. Maybe “bonus” or “ultimate” bosses can be tuned higher, to give more of a challenge, but for general progression and T2/3 dungeons… I think T4 gear should be the baseline.
If players want to further optimize, then more power to them, imho. I don’t think you artificially make your game more attractive by stone-walling min/maxing.
Also, I’m not fighting with you on this… just stating my feelings as well. I agree, it’s ultimately a question for the EHG devs.
Well, LE really can’t support that specialized build play either. Given that LE progression is character-specific, and I can’t log in my ‘boss killer’ after my speed-run build has cleared the dungeon. I guess it’s possible with MP, but solo would just be gimping their progressing in one side or the other, if they overly-specialized a build.
True, you can’t get stability up and then switch to the boss killer. But you can use your “farmer” to speed farm echoes and get keys and then switch to your “boss killer” to do dungeons.
But my point was that LE needs more endgame to allow for more build diversity and, more importantly, build specialization. Where if you do mechanic x builds A, B and C are better at it but if you do mechanic y then builds D, E and F are better.
I believe this will come with time. But right now each build is a sort of jack-of-all-trades that is expected to be able to do all endgame content. So boss balance is sort of balanced against all builds, rather than being able to set a higher ceiling for specialized ones.
no, PoE bossers are mostly glass cannons, in order to insta-kill maven they generally need to put almost everything into offence. The only reason they do not die to sirus blast or shapers blast is because bosses are not even allowed the time to attack once. The few bossing builds that can tank damage generally have slower kill times and thus not all that good for farming bosses over and over from a currency per hour standpoint
Ice trap for instance has the biggest DPS according to poeninja and is concidered to be strictly the best bossing build, but is almost allways less than 2000hp(as in dying to almost everything territory, as 3500 is generally the amount most builds are when mapping).
Honestly, I haven’t played PoE in some time, way before this current power creep, but that wasn’t the case during from Harvest to Scourge leagues. It’s possible the power creep changed things, but I still look at some build videos and pretty much every bosser build I see are getting hit with a hit or two from ubers. Maybe there’s 1 or 2 that use mirror-tier gear that insta-delete them, but that’s not the rule, from what I’ve seen.
Anyway, this is starting to derail the thread and isn’t really relevant to it, so maybe we should just get back to it
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Just like any game, there are good and bad things about it, and that is one of the bad. Would it be as successful if damage potential were changed or toned down so they didn’t need to blast you into oblivion with shit mechanics in order to give you a threat? Maybe, maybe not. But POE being full of RIP-py bullshit is not really arguable.
I just finished the campaign and I agree with OP. For like 54 levels and ~10h gameplay I didn’t feel like I did any meaningful choice, and when I look at the skill tree and passive points I can’t really see that there will ever be one.
The crafting system is rather… boring? Changing some affixes here and there. I can’t see what it possibly can improve on. But it seems very essential to itemization which sort of takes away the fun from finding new gear.
I’m going to try a bit of end game but I can’t really say that I had fun, it wasn’t boring but… it felt like i’m waiting for the game to “click” and it just doesn’t.
It’s ok to give feedback and to not like somethings.
But this one thing you are depreciating it’s one of strongest points of the game right now, and I don’t see how craft should be different given the overall opinion is that it’s in a great state.
Well uh, I disagree, at least from a leveling perspective. Not once during my, what, 15h gameplay did I make any meaningful choice in regards to my gear and the crafting was just a thin layer in the background.
Compared to PoE where a new items with more sockets but perhaps a blue, perhaps not linked etc, can make a huge difference in gameplay, even at low early levels, and continues on throughout the whole campaign and then further into the end game.
I didn’t get anything like that in LE, minor changes in affixes and prefixes are like… meh… it’s like they took the passive tree from PoE and made it into a central part of crafting for itemization. Maybe you like it, I found it incredibly boring and uninspiring.
I did tried to do some echoes, did one boss that was just tank and spank, not really any interesting mechanics. The game never ‘clicked’ for me. I can see how this game will evolve into something great in maybe 2 years time, but at the moment it’s okay.
I went back to PoE (I don’t even do end game, I just level up characters to try new skills or old skills in new ways).
I’ve read some people in chat saying that LE crafting is amazing after 100h or something, which I found hilarious. A system that is available from start shouldn’t become amazing after 100h, it should be relevant from the moment its introduced.
I also found that I was really missing PoE’s support gem system that changes and enhances the skills I want to use. LE is very D3-like in that regard. Which I guess a lot of people appreciate, I found it limiting.
In your first playthrough, crafting isn’t very impactful. However, once you have a char running endgame you’ll have lots of shards. That means that for the next characters you end up picking stuff and just adding some affixes to that gear. You end up using it more often, since any half-decent gear can be made better just slapping a couple shards into it. And you don’t really mind doing that because you’ll have so many of them anyway.
In that case, why are you going back to PoE? Crafting in PoE is only ever used at endgame. You don’t actually use it for the leveling process.
I don’t think you’ve paid much attention to the skill trees, in that case. The skill tree changes and enhances the skill a lot more than PoE allows for with support gems. If you simply look at something like Hammer Throw, it can make hammers spiral, nova or orbit. Summon skeleton mages can become a movement skill. Volatile zombies can vomit instead, dealing necro damage. And countless other examples.
The old but gold " things have different appeal to different people "
I appreciate the craft system here from the beginning, it’s praised sometimes because it can be simple enough for a new player and ingenious enough for veterans.
Another thing is that sometimes it’s the player who prevent himself from having fun by not experiencing the full thing
Your feedback about skills enhances you have not experienced the skill system correctly. Because it’s awesome and with lot of opportunities to to evolve in different play styles.
I just don’t think that affix crafting is that interesting.
Crafting in PoE leveling is reasonable, its pretty straight forward and more to it, it has substantial impact on the gameplay during the leveling progression, it’s not essential, as you say, but it’s relevant. The LE crafting system during leveling is something that can be completely ignored.
I don’t play PoE because of crafting, at all. But the crafting there enhances the leveling experience. I just found LE’s crafting with the limited amount of FP, that I can’t pick and chose which affixes / prefixes I want to change / experiment with (it’s all rng). It didn’t affect how I played the game, it was just… there.
I don’t think you’ve paid much attention to the skill trees, in that case. The skill tree changes and enhances the skill a lot more than PoE allows for with support gems. If you simply look at something like Hammer Throw, it can make hammers spiral, nova or orbit. Summon skeleton mages can become a movement skill. Volatile zombies can vomit instead, dealing necro damage. And countless other examples.>
Well, the game didn’t do a good job of explaining this then I guess. played Sentinel, I opted to go melee and I can’t really see how either Vengeance, Warpath or Rive have any substantial changes in its skill trees.
I’m glad you enjoy the game, for me, my 15h was kind of boring.
I’m curious how crafting in POE is not essential… at any point during game play. There is constant crafting… either sockets, colors or links… to adding resistances or dmg modifiers. And POE endgame is all about crafting…
LE is basically the same, except the endgame can be done with the same items gained during the leveling process.
Your feedback about skills enhances you have not experienced the skill system correctly. Because it’s awesome and with lot of opportunities to to evolve in different play styles.
This is a tad bit strange statement, I played the game, used the mechanics it introduced and to the best of my ability tried to find ways to enhance the gameplay experience. It was a tad bit boring.
As I replied to someone else, i’m glad you enjoy the game but I was a bit bored for the entirety of my leveling experience.
You probably forgot the first time you played PoE. You either used a build which told you what gems to use and what gear to find/craft or you didn’t use the proper support gems and gear.
Same thing with LE. Even though the system is simpler to use and, more importantly, WAY more transparent than PoE’s, you could use a build that tells you how to use your skills tree and what affixes matter.
If you don’t use a build in PoE, then your first experience is either way overwhelming or you make a crappy build that detracts from the gameplay.
In LE, at least, you can usually wing it without a build and not have any issues until you hit empowered monos.
I’m curious how crafting in POE is not essential… at any point during game play. There is constant crafting… either sockets, colors or links… to adding resistances or dmg modifiers. And POE endgame is all about crafting…
Ok let me try to explain. In PoE, skill gems and sockets can greatly affect how you progress throughout the campaign. But itemization is sort of ‘separate’ from gems and sockets, meaning, items can by themselves improve the gameplay (for leveling, again, I don’t play a lot of end game in PoE since there’s always like 20 other gems to try and build characters around).
In LE, I felt that the crafting system in many ways replaces standard itemization, items are for the most part useless unless they have some affix that you are looking for,. however, this factor is limited by how many runes you have available to destroy items. It doesn’t seem that high % affixes are better than low on items either. With FP as another limiting factor for experimentation.
The PoE doesn’t force me into crafting per se in the same way. Perhaps im not making any sense, but it felt like LE wanted to funnel me into the crafting system thats just rng with numbers, that really wasn’t that needed anyway.
