I thought the conversation already referenced that Lagon was a god & that you fight Liath because she doesn’t want you to talk to him 'cause he’s a bit of a dick at times.
It’s not a large and unexpected difficulty spike. It’s really just a hoax people keep spreading around to justify their bad builds.
Refer to video above that showcases you can stand AFK and literally take everything campaign Lagon throws at you.
If you want a comparison, go stand inside the Tremor/Avalanche used by The Frostroot Warden boss in the previous chapter.
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My honest opinion the campaign in LE feels to long- even as someone who plays grimdawn /TQ and does the entire acts from normal to legendery. Making the campaign 3 acts longer to me already seems mental.
I am going to try to explain why:
Key missing pillars
The campaign having small maps makes it feel claustrophobic, where you are pushed in a linear manner with no real deviation. You dont get rewarded for exploring the maps {adding RNG shrines for mastery points randomly for each player, and each character would lesson this}. Also adding guranteed rewards for exploring via OP chests. Current world chests are garbage.
This feeling of go, go, go with no exploration just feels bad. Especially since the world drops are terrible. We need to have something in between gold and blues. Maybe add relics you can attach as extra affixes on gear bellow exalted. So that pre lvl 20, does not make players quit. I had hundreds of people tell me they quit at lvl 5, due to gear being boring.
pillar two
Campaign is missing mini bosses, and proper bosses, and the chapter bosses with exception of lagon are to easy. Mini bosses should drop set items, and they should be easy drops. Each boss should drop the MONOLITH DROPS, BUT CAPPED AT 1LP. YOU SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO FARM THE BOSSES FOR LARGE XP.
The fact you plow panion, harusepex, etc means you dont remember them. When you run into haruspex he should be KOing you in one hit. And then sending you back in time, letting you learn about the epoch, and go through a gauntlet to earn your classes starter set.
Each of the bosses should be memorable.
Its kind of weird… People complain about Lagon but it may be the only Boss they remember besides Aberroth and Shade of Orobyss… Mabe you are right… The Bosses are too easy, even for non Alts…
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Just because it’s not the case for you and other people (who might or might not be a vocal minority), doesn’t mean it’s not a thing for any others. While I didn’t get completely “stuck” on Lagon the first time I had to deal with him, he definitely required several more attempts for me than I was expecting.
Just because it’s doable, doesn’t mean it’s feasible for new players. You can claim that their builds suck but if so many people experience such frustrations then it’s clearly worth considering improving the situation in some way.
Just because you (or a certain vocal minority) needed “several more attempts” to beat Lagon during your first time doesn’t mean there is a difficulty spike.
Also I think you’re missing the point here.
I’m not saying “I beat lagon on the first try, so you can too”.
I’m saying “Anyone can easily tank everything Lagon throws at you”.
You can do this by visiting the vendors that are in every town and buying gear from those vendors. That’s literally how I did it in the video, I removed alt gear that gave me ~370 Ward per Second and I equipped gear I bought from vendors in town.
But it is feasible for new players.
If you think new players cannot feasibly buy items from the vendors in towns, feel free to elaborate on your reasoning.
See, your “so many people” is the vocal minority here 
How many posters about Lagon difficulty can you find, a thousand? Guess what, LE sold over million copies (source). That’s 0,1% of the playerbase who think Lagon is a difficulty spike. Clearly not worth improving anything.
edit: I shouldn’t do math before my morning coffee 
Then call it a perceived difficulty spike. There is clearly something that’s tripping up players significantly more often than other encounters/problems in the game.
Then feasible isn’t the right word. It’s obviously possible, but seemingly too difficult to figure out
Most people don’t voice their issues and instead just leave (if they can’t overcome them obviously). So that just seems like a bad faith argument.
It’s very much possible that it’s a “worth ignoring” small enough group of people but I guess only EHG would know.
I strongly disagree. It’s probably not be worth doing something major like rebalancing the entire campaign (or maybe even only the Lagon fight) but my suggestions should be fairly low effort to implement so even if they only benefit a small number of people, they could still very well be worth it.
Though my main intent was just to try to nudge the discussion about Lagon in the direction of framing/expectation because the difficulty of the fight itself has been discussed plenty already. And I’m sure my suggestions could be significantly improved upon.
Tbh, the boss I have more difficulty with when rushing is usually Majasa.
But maybe that’s because she is actually a bigger gear check. Lagon is a telegraph recognition check.
It’s easy to see where any of Majasa’s attacks are gonna land (maybe that blue shard drop one surprises you when it spews lines, but the that’s about it) while Lagon’s attacks just aren’t as recognizable for new players.
So sure, Lagon could do with a revamp, especially the distinction between his 2 “red eye” attacks, or where waves are coming from, but none of that is actually a gear difficulty or a complete campaign issue.
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Knowing that my most watched video for LE is how to beat lagon, i know a lot of people cant beat him. I have less then 62subs with 0 being for LE. Fact i managed to get 1.2K views with less then 1% of the traffick means at least 100K people at some point where looking how to beat lagon. Thats what? 10% of the entire playerbase?
That is significant, i dont know how many where filtered, but i think the number is very high
How do you figure that 1.2k views mean that 100k people have watched your video?
As soon as someone watches your video for 30 seconds it counts as a view. If the same person watches your video 100 times you have 100 views.
So you have 1.2k people watching at most. Or maybe just 120 people watching 10 times each.
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That’s exactly why nobody will act on your suggestions. You can’t even describe what this “something” is. If there is this difficulty that previously wasn’t there, you should be able to point out what is different from before, right?
I’d say it’s called skill issue.
Or maybe most people don’t voice any issue, because there isn’t any 
Well, it clearly wasn’t discussed enough, because we still get people like you who think the fight is difficult.
If you want to see something actually difficult, try some Legion Raids in Lost Ark for example.
Not really. The solution is the same as for Lagon (and I have a video facetanking everything from Majasa too ).
WeAreViledNation, if you wanna be a clown, there’s an off-topic section on the forum, you can most some trolling or memes there. We’re trying to have a discussion here.
But just in case you were actually serious…
No, 1.2k views does not equal 100k opinions. When a person watches a video, it doesn’t say anything about their opinions.
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Yes, the ‘solution’ is the same, which is gearing … which I did say I was her biggest check, right?
She does fire, lightning, poison & phys on top of armor shred, you need some baseline or she’ll one-shot you. Lagon only really needs cold & lightning res.
To me, Lagon is designed to teach a new players about telegraphed attacks, he just doesn’t do it as well as it should. Majasa is the one teaching you spreading defensive stats around. (Yrun’s is to not stand in the fire, even if it’s blue )
Yes, one of the solutions to bosses is better gearing.
You said Majasa is a bigger gear check than Lagon, which isn’t true. You said it yourself - it’s easy to see where any of Majasa’s attacks are gonna land. When it’s easy to see, it’s easy to avoid. Not a gear check if you can just avoid it, right?
During all Lagon phases you are constantly under attack. Meanwhile Majasa constantly gives you free time - during the stone gaze, during the burrowing, during her regeneration, and sometimes she attacks but her attacks won’t even target you (the poison stalactites that leave poison pools). Majasa is definitely more of a freekill than Lagon.
For Majasa, you really only need Physical. For Lagon, you only really need Physical and Cold. IIRC Majasa’s melee hits in P2 and Lagon’s Waves in P2/3 are the only things you can’t avoid. Everything else is avoidable.
Here’s an example Majasa from the internet. He shows screen at the end, he has phys and fire, but 0% poison, 30% lightning, and his DPS is weak so the fight lasts for 6 minutes. A gear check boss should delete him, but the player wins. HP/Ward sustain ftw.
Well, that’s an opinion. In my opinion, they don’t teach anything. If the name of this topic is anything to go by… 
They may have been challenging mechanical bossfights 2+ years ago in v0.8, which is where I would think this “Lagon hard” thing actually surfaced.
But today “Lagon hard” is a meme. You only need enough hp to not get instakilled, then you can just heal through any damage you take and call it a day. HP is interchangeable with resistances and DR% in this case, and if you have more than just one thing (aka build properly), you can facetank everything like I did.
providing you numbers is trolling? These numbers are from my YouTube Analytics. But I suppose you can believe me or not, that is your call.
It also doesn’t mean that they watch it just once.
He’s trying to extrapolate up from his video’s views to a putative number of people who are having issues, which is fair though we know maths & logic isn’t his strong point.
No, the number of views is fine, it’s what you did afterwards which was the dodgy bit. I personally wouldn’t go so far as to say it was trolling, just very dodgy use of statistics & we all know what they say about statistics…
That 1.2k views does not equal 1.2k people who viewed it, some of them would have watched it more than once.
I suppose that may be true. But why search up how to beat the boss if you do not need the help to beat it. These numbers are hard to know, as youtube does recommend videos to people who do not need them. Cant say how many tho
Exactly, that was my point.
That’s not how it works. I’d have hoped a streamer/content creator would have understood that. YouTube doesn’t know that you’re having difficulty with a boss, it just knows that you’ve searched for “how to kill Lagon”.
It’s not about believing you, it’s about understanding what the numbers mean.
Traffic tells you “how your viewers found your content”. If you are getting 1% of traffic from somewhere, it means 1% of your views came to your video from that source. At 1,2k views on your video, it would mean you got 12 views that arrived at your video that way.
No, it really doesn’t mean that ~100k people searched for a guide to Lagon and 1% arrived at your video. This part seemed like an obvious trolling attempt.
Views and traffic doesn’t say anything about how many of them are real people, how many of those people are LE players, how many of those views are rewatches, how many people were searching for X or the reasons why they are looking for X.
If you need an example, think about why did I search for the Majasa video posted in my previous reply? 
Indeed, I do not need the help of a kill video or a video guide.
Another example - think about the guy who had the 6 minute long fight. Ever wondered if other players had to struggle like you did? Well, you can check, just watch someone’s video about Majasa, right?
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Nor does it mean that they watched the whole thing. They could start watching, stop after just a little and it still counts as a view.
You don’t even need to search it. It could have shown up on the feed. I have watched many many videos I didn’t search for just because youtube fed them to me, including many PoE builds even though I haven’t played PoE for some time now.
It doesn’t mean that I was interested in making a new PoE build. Just that I’m still interested in following PoE stuff.
So some people might have watched your video not because they searched for it, but just because it was a video about LE and they checked it out, even though they might have no issues with Lagon. They might just be curious if there was some trick they missed.
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“if” carrying your argument there. And no, easier to see doesn’t mean easier to avoid. But it is easier to prepare for. A non-perfect player may still get hit by Majasa’s attack, which hurts a lot if you’re not properly geared. Stone Gaze, one of her more lethal attacks (atleast for new players, imho) isn’t just a hit or miss thing either, but stacks, so a slower player can still get out of it or recover straight after. She also has a bit more random damage going out during her first phase, even compared to Lagon in phase 2. If I die to her, it’s usually just overall damage intake rather than not avoiding a single hit. Even her last phase just builds up damage & armor shred rather than just getting you from full to null. Compared to your facetank vid where Lagon’s eye beam still nearly kills you half the time…
He attacks like once every 4 seconds. You definitely get a few shots in between each attack. And yes, you do so much damage to Majasa when she’s burrowed …
Plus her stone gaze is always aimed at you, so saying that gives you free time would be the same as Lagon’s moonbeam or melee slams giving you time.
You definitely can avoid the waves on Lagon.
First thing in his description: This boss proved to be a challenge for me, I think it took me 30 tries
Yes, he avoids rather than gears, and pretty sure Lightning Aegis saves his bacon as much as Ward does, but the fact he spent 30 tries (at up to 5min each, that’s atleast 2 hours) of learning the fight means it’s not just a roflstomp.
Unfortunately he doesn’t have any Lagon footage, so we can’t really compare how this new player handled that, outside his reference to “trying a few times” on his last video on Chapter 8. But considering he called Majasa challenging after doing Lagon, that would counter the initial argument of Lagon being the hardest boss for a new player, no?
Regardless, I think more players (especially the non-streamer/tuber ones) have issues with Lagon because his attacks come from several different directions. e.g. in phase 3 you have to keep track of his eye, his arms, the waves, and now also the tentacles, which are the only thing on the screen you’re actually aiming at. Compared to Majasa you’re only ever looking at her for telegraphs, and the only time that changes you get 3 crystal turrets just machine gunning their ‘basic’ attack, no telegraphs to be had.
I can’t even think of another boss before that, where damage is coming from another source, except the eye beam adds on Emperor’s Husk, and I’m sure plenty of players get caught out on that one for their first play-throughs as well. And it’s still slightly better because they are attackable enemies moving in before starting their attack, and it’s reasonable to expect something with a red bar over their head is going to damage you.
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