Javelin Surprise Initiative

This is the dash to battle standard node for reference. I have two requests regarding this node.

  1. Please have this node give Javelin the movement tag so it benefits from Movement Skill Increased Cooldown Recovery Speed.

  2. Please make the cooldown start upon throwing the battle standard. It currently doesn’t start until you do the dash which means I almost always double tap the skill to immediately dash even when its not necessary.

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But Javelin isn’t a movement skill, it’s proccing a movement skill. That would be like giving Warpath the spell tag if you take the Abyssal Echoes proc node.

That’s not how any of the game’s combo skills work. The cooldown always starts after the final part of the combo, this is the intended functionality.

And why is this in the Rogue section??

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I don’t know why its in the rogue section. I thought I selected feedback. Lets chalk it up to me fatfingering.

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That is objectively not true.

I am not sure if you wanted to exaggerate or not, but you can literally throw the Battle Standard across the entire screen.

And the delay between throwing and actually being able to dash is like maybe 0,5 sec maximum.

Yes it is not instant like a quick rogue shift, but it does have way mroe range than Shift for example.

I don’t know,

I sounds like we are playing different games.

I do also play on 1080p, I don’t have any considerable attack speed or throwing attack speed and decent movement speed (endgame boot base type with T3 or T4 MS affix.

There is no way I can cover the same distance I can travel with the flag with just running.

I will do a video tomorrow

My opinion is, based on the alt description of Surprise Initiative : it puts Lunge and Shield Rush on cooldown…it should be GIVEN the movement tag by speccing into the node and therefore receive the CDR from Valient Charge. Or you could say…movement tag is being ADDED.

Oh, and Valient Charge’s alt description states: “Adding or removing the movement tag through that skill’s tree will change it’s compatibility with this node.”

Up Voted

Also, Volatile Reversal IS movement tagged and it is currently not receiving the Valient Charge CDR, soo…

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I’m with @Llama8 on this one…

To take your same logic, Javelin should then get the Spell tag if you take the Divine Intervention (Smite) node… This would make no sense…

To take this further, Javelin should then also get the mana cost of Smite added to it… Again, to me this makes no sense.

For the lunge… it should then inherit the mana cost too? Again, illogical to me…

As I see it, one skill the casts/procs a secondary skill - they are still separate skills the one just fires off the other - as if you proc’d it yourself (with caveats obviously)

Every class in the game has skills that do a secondary skill proc and what you are suggesting doesnt fit with the way the devs have implemented them…

I understand Llamas point and it’s a good one. And I’m not saying EVERY skill that procs another should gain tags corresponding to the skill procc’d, I agree that would be silly. However, I’m simply pointing out there’s inconsistency in how these “tags” actually work. Void Cleave is tagged as a “movement” skill, however the “movement” is not, how would you say, significant in the sense of - most builds will not SOLELY use Void Cleave as the main movement ability in their build, yet it is still movement tagged. Volatile Reversal is tagged as a movement skill and can be used to move a significant distance, however as I stated before…

Hence there is “inconsistency” in how this node is currently working. As such it is not ridiculous or outlandish to suggest (as myself and Promethean are) that it is possible that the Javelin Surprise Initiative node is not currently functioning as intended.

And under your logic, no skills would ever receive additional “tags” from their skill tree, which makes no sense…since the dev’s have indicated that the movement tag can be added as I state below. If someone specs into a node that converts all their damage from void to fire, does that skill then not scale with fire damage? It does. Therefore it inherits bonuses from the rest of the build related to “fire” damage and that skill should gain the Fire “tag” from the skill node(if specc’d), IMO.

Also, to further substantiate the potential that skills WOULD gain a certain “tag” from certain skill tree nodes, the devs gave us this language related to Javelin Surprise Initiative and Valient Charge, respectively:


This language (from the Devs) indicates that movement skill tags can be added or removed from skill nodes and that change should be affected by the Valient Charge passive node. I think suggesting that the movement tag be added from Suprise Initiative is a valid suggestion. Whether the dev’s agree or disagree, I would like more explanation from them as to what the Valient Charge alt text actually means cuz I think that is the crux of all this. Adding indicates that movement-tagged skills are not the ONLY skills that apply to the passive, since you wouldn’t “add” a movement tag to an already movement-tagged skill…

Movement tag technicality aside, lunge and shield rush going on cd because of the javelin banner does imply that dev intended the javelin banner to be a movement skill that replace those 2 skills. But at current 6s cd, javelin banner is too restrictive to be used as sole movement skill.

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