I just wanted to suggest itemizing Mono bosses the same way Aberroth is with Harbinger Eyes. This way players have the option to use their boss killer to farm bosses if they choose.
Let me know what you all think of that idea.
What you want kinda already exists, itâs the Glyph of Envy. Mono bosses require stability to unlock. Theyâre balanced around that. Changing it so that you could chain farm them would mean a nerf in their drop rates and blessings.
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I am not saying remove the stability requirement to unlock, you would still do the same process but when you have a prompt to start the boss you also have an option to itemize it, maybe even making something farmable to be able to itemize it. I prefer not to take 5 minutes killing a boss on my mono farmer when I have a boss killer.
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So your mono farmer would never get blessings? And would take a much longer time raising corruption?
Again, what you want already exists. Just use the Glyph of Envy. You need 4-6 glyphs per boss, depending on corruption, and you usually get about that or more on your way to the boss.
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My mono farmer already has the blessings and I donât need the corruption above 300 on him while I farm for alt pieces, the issue is that I might still want an item from a boss like Lagon and donât want to spend 5min killing him.
I do not want to boss kill on my mono farmer, I can get to bosses very quickly with my corruption at 800+ and envy on my boss killer. This is just a suggestion for QoL and efficiency.
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This is not so much QoL as simply wanting to avoid decisions. LE is set up in a way where your build needs to do most things. It needs to farm echoes and it needs to kill the bosses. It was balanced around this. When you make a build you need to make a decision on if you want more ST or AoE and sacrifice accordingly.
What you want is not to sacrifice anything and not have to make decisions. You just make one full ST build for bosses and one full clear for echoes and not have to deal with those consequences.
Your suggestion has the exact same result as D3âs instant loadouts and effectively kills build diversity.
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I disagree, I still need to do the work for what I am suggesting, I had to do the work to make a boss killer to kill Aberroth in 5 seconds and I still needed to do work to get my Mono farmer to 300 corruption. At this point I have put in enough hours and would like to try and experiment with other builds without doing the exact same grind over and over.
This is not like diablo 3, what I am suggesting is actually closer to Path of Exileâs game design. Since the Monoâs arenât shared Like PoE maps are, this is a next best solution to speeding up a games gearing process after you have put in lots of hours.
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Yes, but PoE has lots of endgame mechanics that require specialization. And you see the same thing in PoE: you have farmers, boss killers, etc. It leads to build specialization which actively kills build diversity.
LE only has monos for endgame. Arena is niche and dungeons arenât really farmable and are more purpose-oriented. So it doesnât make sense to start separating and specializing yet. Part of the fun in LE is balancing your build so it can manage all the content.
What this will lead to is that youâll make a build that can get to 300c and then respec for mono farming and then youâll do the same for boss killing. Balanced builds will be used only as a stepping stone and discarded once you reach your desired corruption.
I agree that this might become necessary in the future when LE has more endgame mechanics and there will actually be a need to specialize your build, like happens in PoE. But LE isnât there yet. For now, all it does is reduce build diversity and the necessity for decisions.
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What you are saying is subjective, I personally have made a boss killer and a map farmer in PoE and then actively try new builds while trying to gear a character that can just do all content.
My suggestion comes from where I am at currently in the game, I want to experiment with new builds which will create diversity but I will be getting burnt out over time doing long boss fights after the grind on new alt. I am lost at how my suggestion would reduce build diversity, if anything itâs having OP builds that reduces build diversity(mana stackers)
What is your current opinion on Harbinger eyes? It is basically the same thing as what I am wanting right now.
Right now, when creating a new build, you have to balance it to be able to do all content. Do you focus more on AoE knowing that the bosses will take longer? Do you focus more on ST knowing that clearing monos will take longer? Do you find a balance between them?
Where you decide to position your build in this spectrum leads to a different build.
If you instead do what youâre suggesting youâll have only 3 builds:
-A balanced build that can get you to 300c quickly.
-A full ST build where you have to make no sacrifices because youâre going all out on ST and will never have to farm echoes.
-A full mono speed clear build where you have to make no sacrifices because youâre going all out on AoE/clear speed and will never have to kill a boss.
There will be no need to make decisions. Itâs the same thing as using instant loadouts to switch between a boss killer setup and an echo farming setup. It actively reduces choices. Why would you bother making decisions and your own personal build when the most effective way is simply not to make those decisions and have 2 builds going all out instead?
Harbingers and Aby are optional content. Most players donât interact with it at all. Monos, though, are the single endgame mechanic we currently have where the majority of players will spend their whole time on.
As a sidenote, I would expect your 5s Aby build (and all the other one-shot Aby builds) to be very nerfed in 1.2.
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You always need to make a decision, you need to make decisions while leveling, gearing, farming. I donât understand how you can say there will be no need to make them anymore.
We donât have instant loadouts, you canât just change from a necromancer to a warlock, you have to make an important decision and make a new character if you decide to change your mind later and try something new. Even a respec is a tough decision, you lose your levels on skills and have to build them up again, nothing is instant and that is not what I am asking for.
What is wrong with having a full mono speed clear build? I will have to make a decision on how to build up my gear if I decide I want to push farther than 300c⌠I canât just magically farm any corruption I want on him, I will need to make a decision on how I want to continue gearing in order to push higher difficulties.
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Because, as I said:
-During leveling and until you reach your desired corruption youâll use a balanced build. One that can clear stuff fast enough and still handle bosses. For each mastery there will exist one that is more efficient and that will be the one used.
-Then, when youâre high enough level and have reached 300c (or whichever corruption youâre aiming for), youâll respec and switch to a full mono clear build. Since thereâs no need to sacrifice anything in order to kill bosses, since you wonât be killing any, there will only be 1 build.
-With you other character youâll do the same thing. Youâll use a balanced build until youâre at the desired corruption/level and then respec to a full boss killing build. Again, since you wonât be clearing monos, you donât have to sacrifice anything and youâll go all out on ST. So there will be 1 build.
Whereas now you have many different builds in that spectrum. You can still go all out on one or the other, knowing you will be much much slower for whatever you didnât specialize into. Or you can go 50/50. Or you can do 25/75. Youâll have to decide how much you want to sacrifice in one or the other and each build feels unique.
At high corruption, the cost of respec is merely an annoyance. Itâs annoying enough that you wonât do it to cheese content while not being annoying enough that you can legitimately switch builds if you want. At 300c itâs about 5 minutes or less to fully switch a build.
But that wasnât the point. The point about loadouts is that they also reduce build variety. Why would you waste time deciding on what you want to sacrifice regarding speed vs ST damage, if you can simply go all out on one or the other without any downsides?
There is nothing wrong with that, as long as thereâs a give and take. As long as youâre sacrificing something. You go all out on speed clear, you know bosses are going to be slow. What youâre proposing is simply a way to remove the downsides and not have to sacrifice anything.
You want your cake and eat it too.
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Iâm on my 6th character and would consider making more if I had the option to do what is proposed in this topic. It promotes new build creations by creating new options of what people want to focus on when they play the game, some people prefer boss farming, others prefer mono clearing. IMO to say that this will reduce build diversity is not true, games have always had these aspects of certain characters being better at some things than others.
The real issue that ruins build diversity is ignoring underperforming builds, and that is something that the Devs have to deal with
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The way I play is - I can do everything on the one character Iâm playing right now. Void Knight or Paladin.
DJ is right,
I think youâve put yourself in a square peg round hole situation. LE is its own thing separate from POE or Diablo. Having âitemized mono bossesâ as you suggested, or loadouts as DJ alluded to avoids the tradeoffs necessary to create build diversity. If EHG incentives players to go all in on ST or AOE, to farm items in AOE on one character, to then switch to an ST character to use those items to farm bosses, it displaces the tradeoffs of character building onto multiple characters. You no longer need to make tradeoffs on your character because you have another character that does a different job. LE is balanced around the current content and part of that ethos is that your character needs to be sufficient at multiple jobs like AOE and ST. But oftentimes you will still focus on one or the other, and have to incorporate a small amount of the other to be sufficient. ST builds still need a clear ability. AOE builds still need to be able to down bosses effectively. The fact that you canât always be good at both with every build inspires diversity of build thru tradeoffs. Otherwise everyone will just go all-in on ST or AOE, and the metas will become even more concentrated. Youâre asking for an even deeper meta system, that spreads your progress amongst multiple characters. I donât like that idea at all, Iâd rather each character be self sufficient or play in a party to balance itâs weaknesses.
I donât generally like meta builds. I like experimentation, and coming up with my own builds. Letâs not subdivide the builds even further with incentives to divide the content amongst multiple characters with different jobs.
If anything, the fact that LE allows group play with 4players is already an incentive to have more specialized builds like you are requesting.
I would suggest to take part in community play, and that way you can have your super specialized ST build, or AOE build, because the people you group with will then have their own specializations to balance the group out.
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There are no requests for âloadoutsâ in the discussion, I didnât ask for it and it doesnât allude to it at all because that would imply I have a VK ES build and can just hit a button and swap to Hammers. I hope you arenât suggesting that having two level 90+ characters with different roles for farming is a âloadoutâ⌠getting multiple characters to that level takes quite a bit of time and farming.
I am under the impression that you guys think I cannot do certain things on multiple characters and so I am asking for a handicap to help me complete tasks, this is not the case. I can do all of the content on my characters, and I enjoy trying new things in each game I play which can lead to build diversity. I might come across a 3 LP item for a build I havenât seen anyone talk about, decide to level a new guy and give it a try. I just want more options and a more efficient way to continue grinding without feeling like I am wasting any time.
I donât believe getting to 800+ corruption is easy for everyone, I too had to make sacrifices to get there whether it was changing blessings for more defense or swapping out a helmet to cap my resistances. This takes a while to get multiple characters to this point and along the way you have to make choices on what you want to use, you donât just magically get there the same way as everyone else.
My suggestion is aimed towards people that have put in more time into the game and have multiple characters, it would be optional for players. If you itemized it for another character, you will not receive a Gaze of Orobyss on that character who itemized it, you stay at the same corruption and your stability resets. You can change your mind if you decide that you want to clear it later or at another time and carry on the same, letâs say if you have an Orobyss prophecy on the character since prophecies are not shared.
@Keph1 Loadouts were mentioned 3 times in this thread prior to me saying it, and now itâs been mentioned 7 times. I clearly stated that DJ alluded to loadouts, not you. He compared the results of your suggestion to D3 loadouts, which is a fair comparison, result for result.
When it comes to RPGs, anything thatâs considered âoptionalâ unfortunately morphs into âoptimalâ when there is an incentive for it ⌠Based on your suggestions, that you would like to switch to a boss killer character for efficiency, instead of killing bosses on your âmono farmerâ character, there would be an incentive to have multiple characters with different jobs for efficiency, and thus this suggested new system of itemized mono bosses is no longer optional. Now it has become optimal due to incentives. Now anybody not using your âoptionalâ system is going to feel inefficient, and under-powered. Your suggestion is not really optional, itâs creating an incentive to run multiple alts in order to complete the same content, rather than building one sufficient character.
I am an alt-o-holic, but I donât like the idea of having to use multiple characters to complete one stream of content, as in your example; using a mono farmer and then switching to a boss killer. This isnât Lost Ark.
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I personally donât like the concept of specialized toons. A great toon is one that is balanced for farming, bosses and dungeons (if we ever get dungeons worth doing) .
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Itâs not a good comparison at all, you could literally have multiple saved loadouts in d3 that would change gear and skills within seconds. You guys seem so afraid of the idea that LE might take on features similar to its competitors, so much so that it seems you would rather it die the way it is right now.
You are talking about making an optimal build to do everything because somehow focusing on one build the entire season inspires âdiversityâ⌠Yea that makes no sense to me. You mean diversity in your gear choices, not new builds for people to discover.
The players who want to build a character up for everything are going to do it anyways, we need more options in this game for player retention. Above your first post is XCERIIS who says he can do everything on one character heâs playing right now, click his name and look at his post âProgression Ventâ, he doesnât even want to play other characters. I find when I am playing that players who want to play like you are do are going to do it regardless, the others most likely got worn out from how long progression can take between multiple characters combined with the lack of end game content.
Suggesting that players join community and group up has never worked for many reasons, some people just like being alone, different skill levels in the group, different points of progression, some require vc, and the list goes on.
Like DADDYLUVSYOU said âI personally doesnât like the concept of specialized toonsâ, great, nobody is going to force you to do it. Technically the game already has âspecialized toonsâ because when I see people asking for help killing their 300 corruption Lagon, or their T4 Sanctum, or Aberroth, I swap to my âspecializedâ Shaman to help them out.
I have no idea how you would come to that conclusion from this discussion. Thatâs wildly assumptive.
I donât really think you understand the responses that people are providing.
Never worked? Says who? Since when? What are you even talking about, group up has never worked� Have you used the group function before? What exactly do you mean?
It seems like youâre just ignoring all the replies and sticking to your guns without actually considering the input thatâs been provided here.
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