This is just perfect! This is exactly how I’ve always wanted trade to work!
But honestly isn’t this the game loop already in PoE and D3 or basically every other ARPG with trade for it’s seasonal event? You go league starter to get the early currency and chase items. Then you play your 2nd real build for a few weeks or up to a month and then quit. Those that don’t capitalize aka FOMO, terms that can damage the ARPG or MMO experience, then spend a factor of time more farming up for their build. Then they use that finished build a couple of weeks and then quit. If you look at the Steam charts a league is basically dead week 5 and the body starts to rot progressively over the next few weeks as people move on.
If you just watched the Ziz, Steel, Mathil, Quin podcast and how much of their discussion revolved around trade, nerfs/balancing, and not see how trade will break the game experience we enjoy now don’t know once the genie is out of the bottle there’s no putting it back in.
Start with this system and iterate on it equals success. Open trade from the get-go and watch LE turn into something mediocre IMO.
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However, we want Last Epoch to be an ARPG that, at its core, is about going out in the world, killing enemies, and finding awesome loot, not one where playing the economy is the key to success. We strongly believe that this approach will make the game both a more enjoyable co-op experience and a more balanced solo experience.
Full agree!
…but I think trade UI should be similar PoE for players who want item trade, not only gift for anti scam.
By the way, I’m looking forward to this Gift system. 
Agree with you Harvest, errrmmm Heavy!
I expected this weak form of trade based on how devs were communicating (and also, how they stayed quiet about it…). To me is great, and I understand how so many PoE players are disgusted with this revelation.
I hope they dig into it a bit more, is way too restrictive even for the case of giving a leg to a friend.
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Chalk up another one disappointed with this decision. I don’t always play at the same time as my friends so this basically keeps the game SSF for my situation. Hope they relax the restrictions somewhat but if not, best of luck with the game moving forward.
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What a disappointment. I come from a 20 year old game with a simple trading system. I wish we could have the new classes over multiplayer. As a solo player I hope yall have plans for multiplayer seasons other than just a ladder.
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I approve of this decision. Trade is a suck on every game it is in for anyone that solo plays. It forces devs to reduce drop rates.
Contrary to what some think, it doesn’t help with making item drops feel better. It massively reduces the number of items that drop that feel exciting because they have to be so rare that they aren’t flooding the economy and worthless.
The game does need more systems in place to work towards items. A sense of inevitability. Constant all or nothing drops gets boring the same as easy character completion. If players could make incremental progress towards some items it would help a lot.
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i havent been following or logged into the forums for ages.
i see many people who have commented how they are unhappy about the decision to remove trading.
EHG team, please do not be discouraged, i m pretty sure a vast number of these people do not realize the implications of enabling trade (which involves rebalancing drop rates- usually making drops shit for single players). many of them do not realize what they are asking for.
EHG, i love how you guys make a super lengthy post explaining in great detail the pros and cons and reasoning.
you’re really making a good game i really respect and admire your decision as i know there definitely will be backlash.
i personally am totally FOR your decision.
Thanks EHG
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You do realize it was the devs who set the expectations for the users in respect to trade, no? This topic has been going on for years, and gifting is the end result. One day you will be able to empathize hopefully. Trade talk should have not been discussed in the length it was, when in hindsight, it was clear the devs bit off more than they could chew.
As a SSF player, its whatever to me. Trade is an important part of arpg’s to many people, it shouldnt be difficult for you or any other user to understand why a sizable portion of the player base would react like they have.
Contrary to what you think, your subjective view has no objective merit.
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Wish I could refund, this is really disappointing.
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Thank you.
I love this system, I can totally see the focus on making sure that this game doesn’t repeat the mistakes of others arpgs.
Totally understand all the points being made in the post.
Please, add an option in the character creation menu that allows sharing resources and items between the characters in one account without being able to trade with others players.
dude, i come from POE. i am a filthy casual that can farm maybe 50 exalts each league. the crafting system in POE imho is almost useless to me as its almost always better to just save up and buy gear from players.
i enjoy playing LE because i can self sustain. i dont play SSF on POE because SSF on POE is retarded. i am thoroughly trade reliant on POE. i dont remember the last time i dropped a rare item in poe and went oooh thats so awesome, i dont remember the last time i exalt slammed something good.
as i said many people do not realize what they are asking for.
i would ask you this, would trade even be relevant if everything you needed dropped for you normally? trade is especially important when things are scarce.
if my enjoyment requires taking away people enjoyment from trading so be it. i enjoy generous loot and self sustaining. if people prefer trading over killing mobs and getting drops, play a trade/economy simulator. why are they even playing an arpg? if their enjoyment comes at my cost.
game devs want their games to be enjoyed one the way they design their game. i believe the way i enjoy the game (killing stuff , getting drops) is the way the game devs intended their game to be enjoyed.
i’ve played grimdawn where trade is available but not enforced but i dont trade anyway. i’ve played many arpgs. ultimately i find the games that i have the most great time are those where i dont feel the need to ever rely on trade. i will admit, having the option to trade can be good but i m not willing to pay the price of having my item drops nerfed as a result
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Like you I have suffered with PoE’s trading system for a couple thousand hours, the tedium finally hit a point where it was either SSF or saying bye to an amazing game with the most bullshit trading system imaginable.
I honestly do not think trade is needed for LE, the game fits a particular niche much like Grim Dawn, and holy shit, I love Grim Dawn.
This is neither here nor there though. The issue is the devs made a cardinal mistake, getting players hopes up. Without a doubt there are people who saw some gameplay on youtube, visited the forums, and read about the trading system that has been discussed here from the beginning of time. These people took the devs for their word. bought the game in good faith, and today are finding out the system that has been given so much attention, turns out to be literally nothing.
This is not a player having unrealistic expectations issue, this is the devs not communicating properly with us, the people who support the game because of what they were told would be there by launch. Im guessing this is the teams first big project, and I hope they learn from this that some things should be left of the back burner until an actionable plan of implementation is in place.
Tomorrow is GGG’s day for redemption btw, hope you have a good time with the league if you still play! I called it quits once I hit maps in Kalandra, just like EHG, GGG has been having real issues with communication, and as a result, saw the worst retention numbers yet. I like LE, I dont want the devs to go down that road.
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Yeah exactly. I refuse to believe that they only just now decided that trade was the root of all evil in arpgs. That is something that deserved a big post plastered all over the place the moment they decided on it. I know it wasn’t a cash grab or a bait and switch, but to a lot of people it’s going to feel like one. They deliberately market to poe players quite heavily and neglecting this little detail is not something that is going to sit well with people regardless of if it makes a good or a bad game.
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Honestly this is one of the few ways that they can avoid third party gold/currency sellers and bots filling up the game servers and I’m all for it. I’ve just been playing Torchlight Infinite recently and the sellers and trade house is a cluster fuck with the best items reserved for the rich third party buyers or no-lifers (I am a no-lifer, but this doesn’t change the truth lol). Plus their end game is also basically untouchable unless you play the meta or economy.
Honestly, if this approach for LE saves it from becoming like TL:I or PoE, I’ll be very happy with it. My major issue will be if farming for said items becomes super hard and I cannot get the items that I need for the builds I want to do. That would suck. However I can see this system also encouraging party play when farming said item, so you can have several peoples chances of finding said item too. This is a good thing in my personal opinion, because I like party play in ARPG’s.
Otherwise this system has been successful in other ARPG’s, and will feel better than having to play the economy for the items you need, by instead playing the game for the items you need. They will just have to keep tabs on whether or not playing the game for the items they need actually works and doesn’t end up with people quitting due to RNG bad luck.
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Here is the thing, LE has items that are immensely scarce, so scarce that you have a better chance farming mirrors by clicking chests. How are you going to feel if one of those items drops and it is for a build that you do not have any interest in playing? For me, I would just up and quit there because I don’t want to feel pressured to play something I don’t want to play. (And no, I can’t filter it out because the filter system is so limited. If an item like that drops I will be forced to see it.)
I really don’t care how limited things are. For me to be able to enjoy playing this game I need a way to deal with extremely good items I do not want to use. I do not care if I don’t get any currency in return, I do not care if I can only sell one item every 6 months. I need a way to get that type of item out of my stash without “wasting” it. It needs to go to another player. This is a stupid illogical way to look at it, but for me this is a completely experience ruining issue.
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Actually I’ve also had more fun with D2:R playing Ironman self-imposed rules, and not having to worry about trading and economy there also, and it’s far more enjoyable than the trading enabled version of it lol. I’m really digging this approach from LE, and I hope they stick with it.
I totally get that not wasting it thought process, I have the same feeling, but for me I just make more characters that can use those items XD but that obviously isn’t for everyone haha this is something that I think they should consider, though I’m not sure how to fix this without ruining the game in another way, sadly.
oh hello fellow exile! i too shall join the fray tomorrow. i had “quit POE several times”. i like playing my own build and going non meta. thus i play pretty inefficiently. i cant afford to play SSF on POE on temp leagues as i always play melee in all arpgs. melee single strike skills no less. i believe you would know how ppl bitch about poe melee.
i already know i need to start saving up currency to buy the gear i need. you know how bad it is.
but i see that you have mentioned a different point of view, which is player expectations. from that point of view, i agree with you to some degree and i sympathize those who wanted trade. trade is too common in arpgs that it’s expected. either way i would still prefer LE be this way rather than the slog i have to go through on POE. there are many reasons why players left poe. i would argue one of the reasons is because of the droprates. casuals like me are accustomed to shit poor drops. its been this way “forever”. when GGG decided to nerf the top 1% by nerfing juiced content, the 1% started to speak out. more players started to realize the vast difference of loot that juicers would get compared to a non juicer.
since you play SSF i m assuming you’re using an efficient build. there are many poe players who do not want to rely on build guides, there are many who want to play solo. there are many who cannot do hard content. there are many who use inefficient builds.
the impact of realizing the huge difference of drops is that all these players who are struggling, suddenly realize that magic find/juicing is too important. in a way its killing diversity. you need to use a good/strong build. you cannot afford to experiment. you cannot afford to be inefficient. to people like me, following a build is the game playing you, rather than you playing the game. all this boils back down to the drops. which also ties in with trade.
as for GD i really love GD too. i have a 2h melee occultist+necro that cleared ultimate (non HC but whatever lol). GD has both generous loot drops AND trade. but the major difference GD has with many of the current ARPGs is that it’s an offline game. i would argue that trading in GD is essentially cheating as you dont know where the other player got his item. he could have used a mod to get crazy drops or just outright imported the item into his save. hence i play GD “SSF amongst friends”. usually me handing out goodies to my lower leveled friends.
all in all i believe all we want is to have fun.
i feel with slight tweaking this solution could be a LOT better
basically for user accounts that have beaten say the main story they can have a small list of like 8-10 people max that always count as in party with them for loot gifting purposes
and obviously requiring those people to also have finished the story
it would be a massive feels bad to get a good item for a friend you regularly play with at a time you happen to be playing solo
to use PoE examples say the reward of unlocking your hideout mid act 3 style unlocked of your account but as a killing kitava 2/unlocking atlas mapping as the point you get it
still prevents a trade economy forming as your current goal seems to be, but does not limit friends near as much
and only really breaks progression as much as using an item from a previous character
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