Last information on this was: If you bought the game on the websit you can ask for a refund but if you bought it on steam you can’t. On top of that EHG could hide behind the “Everything is object to change” pragraph of kickstarter.
So far EHG treatet their custoumers great and delivered a an okay product and trade is the first problem that surfaces. I chill untill we get the followup statement from EHG even when it’s already long overdue imo.
I guess you’ve never played leagues in PoE.>
Yeah, only played since Harbinger, nice one Sherlock.
Because its a lot easier to trade your X for currency then that currency for Y.
This is what is the main difference between LE and PoE, in PoE almost noone cares about rare drops, almost everybody cares for currency drops, which is not the case in LE. In LE dropping gear is the most exciting thing. Switching from item drops to currency drops (or even converting items to currency) is totally different playstyle + it is almost sure that people would moan about it after 1st week of playing. “yooo just give us that currency to drop, why do we need to drop items”. I think bartering specific items with specific mods is handy enough to use it but not overuse it, so you can’t only play hideout trader. It also improves item progression but it’s not possible to buy BiS item, you still need to craft it (and it becomes non-tradeable after it).
Then i don’t see how you could come to the conclusion that currencies “don’t work” in games with resetting economies. You also never mentioned having played PoE so im not sure why that should have been obvious given your view on the above.
I’d imagine that if there were no trade in PoE that people would care more for rare drops (also, not sure if you mean rares that drop or drops that are rare which is what you said). I assume thats the case if you’re playing SSF, that you do care when a useful item drops. Or you’re more concerned about a good base dropping then having enough currency to craft it into something useful.
Yes, but i’m not convinced that would happen as much in LE as compared to PoE due to the differences in how the crafting works. In PoE, and I’m sure i dont have to explain this given how much you’ve played PoE, crafting is (potentially) significantly more currency intensive due to there being more rng involved (what affixes you get unless you’re using essences/delve/etc to favour a particular affix type but even then its not as deterministic as LE, and what tier they are) and that you can continue to craft until you run out of currency or you vaal it. This drives more of a need for the crafting currency because you’ll probably need more of it.
Bartering certainly does have some advantages, as you say, but for me they are massively outweighed by the inconvenience factor of having to find that 1 person who both has what you want and wants what you have, and is online and in a position to trade, though given the relatively short duration of monos, boss fights, etc this is less of an issue.
Unless you’re working on a system whereby I can take a powerful drop that I don’t want or a large volume of tiny maguffins I have accumulated over time, and shove it into a game-provided Magic Box that will spit out specific item(s) that I do want, then yes, it is. Always, period, end of sentence.
It’s really disappointing to check back in on LE after so long (turns out having a second kiddo takes up way more than 2x your time and energy) to see this update. I like this game and I hope it does well, but no trade is a dealbreaker for me. “Powerful target farming methods” are not even close to a replacement.
The only fun way to get loot in a game is to get it as a direct drop. Always. Anything else is objectively bad.
Subjectivly… Getting a needed item is at a certain point more important then the way you aquire it. The only hack and slay that gives you loot via drops in a resonable ammount of time is D3. Most people simply dont have the time to put 150+h into the aqusation of a certain build enabeling item. At least all my friends with a social life and a family as well as a job say so… they can’t lie all 
.
Kinda, it does get better when they are both old enough to start playing together.
So if it took 2x-3x-5x-10x/whatever the amount of time to grind/find the maguffins than it would to drop/target farm the thing you want, that would still be better?
I had another think about this, it doesn’t matter whats being bartered, it could be a cow for some pigs or grain, an in-game item for a different in-game item or an Earth-like world for several gas giants and mining rights to an asteroid belt. Bartering is always going to be (& should always be) the option of last resort if there’s nothing better available (ie, a mutually acceptable currency). If you’re planning a journey between two geographically distant points, you wouldn’t decide to walk (unless you want to or its for charity or something) unless you had no better option (& I dont want to get into a discussion of what constitutes better as thats not the point).
My post was very intentional. I was trying to do that hyperbole thing because of the previous post stating opinion as fact. Did I do it wrong?
With this logic using currency = Bartering what it is anyway at the end of the day.
by the inconvenience factor of having to find that 1 person who both has what you want and wants what you have, and is online and in a position to trade, though given the relatively short duration of monos, boss fights, etc this is less of an issue.
I guess some affixes will be much more “expensive” and needed as other, like T7 flat life/phys/skills will be more wanted than fire resist, new meta builds will also define which affixes are on top and which are less likely to trade with, ofc you can be very unlucky and not find the mod you need but still trading should only assist you in crafting, primary source of items must be natural drops. System design how to do it in convinient way is another thing, it can also be totally automated, that way you even don’t have to be online. Or to restrict it just be online but do your stuff.
Then i don’t see how you could come to the conclusion that currencies “don’t work” in games with resetting economies.
What I had in mind was inconvinience of bartering in real world and it’s totally stupid “ratios”, money/currency is way more efficient but as I said, it changes totally playstyle
I’d imagine that if there were no trade in PoE that people would care more for rare drops
But rares I mean items dropping, not rare uniques etc, just things dropping on ground in general, in LE you care even for magic items, I think in mirror of kalandra or ultimatum Cloak of Tawm’r Isley in PoE was a total meta thing, price skyrocketed cause it allowed to drop identified magic items, people were able to filter nice mods and make currency thanks to it. 1 item shaking the meta.
Yes, but i’m not convinced that would happen as much in LE as compared to PoE due to the differences in how the crafting works.
That’s why I proposed bartering “mods” and shards/glyphs, not perfect crafted items, in LE you also need a lot of luck, patience and tries to reach really awesome item, in PoE you need limitless currency. Limitless shards in LE won’t guarantee you perfect item, it has to be a combination of few factors, not losing forging potential too much, maybe some extra lucky forges, finding good base with high rolls. It’s much more accessible than in PoE and for me it’s much better way, in PoE most of mirror tier items are totally unaccessible for 95% of playerbase, and 0,001% are people making them (usually it’s not 1 person, it’s entire guild of people commited to craft things like that, and they only supply beasts, syndicates, currency, fossils etc etc) and in fact, all you need is just enough currency and knowledge (or craftofexile), you can always reset it and try again. In LE you at least need to find new bases almost every attempt, that’s where I think trade may come and “help”, it increases your chance to make BiS item, not guarantees it. (well, as I said, there is a very small chance of dropping perfect item but in 3-4 months time it won’t be so popular I guess, lucky person will be happy, that’s also nice, having fun is quite important in game )
I’m not receptive to arguments built on the premise that balancing drop rates around the existence of trade is mandatory. IMO, that is nothing more than pearl clutching. And anyway, POE already does that, and with even the limited opportunities I have to target farm for items, it absolutely feels better to just play the content I enjoy playing, knowing that I can eventually trade for it after building up enough currency either through direct drops or through selling them. I would rather watch my stack of Chaos Orbs go up slowly than spend all my time chasing multiple layers of RNG to get a chance at the item I want.
This post claims it wants to give flexibility but there is nothing more flexible than being able to treat items you don’t want as incremental progress towards an item you do want. Trade offers me that. Targeted farming does not, and what LE is currently offering is absolutely not “powerful targeted farming” in my book.
Ultimately, EHG has their own goals for their game. For a long time those goals had aligned with my interests and preferences as a player. But I’ve also been assuming that there would eventually be trade. Getting items that I want almost exclusively from RNG based direct drops is not fun to me (which is why I like LE’s crafting), and LE will not be fun for me without trade (or some game provided system that directly, deterministically converts items I don’t want into a specific item I do want).
We are all different and EHG can’t please everyone. While you may prefer to be able to get your loot as soon as you can afford it via trade, some of us do not, as that ultimately results in being the most efficient way to get those items. Why does this happen? Could it be because there are hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of people getting them?
I do agree it’s nice to be able to get specific items faster. Mainly build-enabling items. Items that are just stronger, make your character stronger? The nature of the genre is all about getting stronger to do harder content and repeating that cycle until you’ve accomplished your goals or get bored.
I don’t feel good when I obtain my items via trade - but if that’s the best way to get them, I’m going to feel worse if I limit myself. So if trade exists, I will participate in it. I will dislike it. It will not be fun. I’ll do it. I’ll probably get bored of the game faster and quit sooner.
Now, you might think I’m better off in SSF, because I dislike participating in trade. And I’d agree with you, except for one key problem: I enjoy this genre in multiplayer. I enjoy being with other people and synergizing builds between players. Providing support to help others be stronger. Getting support from others.
Ultimately, it’s up to EHG and how they want their game. Whether that’s with trade or not, it’s their vision they’re trying to keep going.
I think I got a little very rambly, but I feel like the most everyone forgets that people with differing opinions exist. I don’t think LE will die with or without trade. I think it’ll be fine either way. I’ll still play it either way. I prefer one way but it’s not going to hurt me if I don’t get what I want.
This got too long and I’m not spellchecking it 
I’m still having trouble reconciling how posters such as yourself could have misunderstood EHGs vision of the Bizaar, which was stated as a limited anonymous selection of a limited selection of player offered items, as being aligned with their understanding of what trade is. In addition without knowing who had posted what, and EHG having the ability to obfusicate any items they would have shown, how would you know if what you are seeing in the “trade” window is not also RNG generated? Do you think that is air your toon is breathing?
Its like a balloon, if you poke it in in one place it has to squidge out in another.
If the devs are happy with the current drop rates and if they want killing mobs to be the primary source of one’s gear and if the devs are happy with the current rate of gear acquisition then they can’t have unrestricted trade (since that would significantly speed up the acquisition of gear). They could introduce unrestricted trade while maintaining the current gear acquisition rate if they were willing to budge (materially) on the drop rates. Or they could keep the drop rates as they are (ish) and introduce a very limited form of trading (gifting, so limited you can’t, IMO, call it trading since its not bi-directional) which is sufficiently limited to not impact the gear acquisition rate much.
So IMO, its not “pearl clutching” its simple maths along with being ideologically committed to certain ciews (current gearing rate = good, current drop rate = readonable-ish & killing mobs need to be the primary source of any/every player’s loot). If you disagree perhaps you could explain how without portraying tjose who disagree as old women (or whoever else would clutch at their pearls) fretting and wailing.
PoE doesn’t have quite the same view on item drops (or crafting).
I don’t disagree with you on your stance, just the above).
Personally, I’d quite like an AH and current drop rates, but i know thats about as reasonable/likely as getting my metabolism and looks back from when i was in my 20s.
Welp, MP it’s just a co-op mode then. Very sad, this game had great premises. Noone of my friends plays LE so I guess nothing changes for me, will be the usual SSF offline grind-hours-the-same-monolith experience. Very disappointed, as is my stash full of items I dont need and have no use whatsoever.
Is it too late for a refund after 600h? I was sold a lie about Bazaar (you had a Trade as a selling point in your kick starter) and now I’m -30euro for a dead game. Great…
600 hours for 30 euros? Definitely didn’t get your money’s worth at all
Considering I payed to be a beta tester and a supporter for the game’s release, while being lied as the Kick Starter promised a multiplayer economy, then no, I definitely did not get my money’s worth.
You didn’t test anything. You just played the game. Testers report bugs.