So far I am at abysmall droprates already. 180h for Exsang for example isn’t very motivating. We don’t know what drop rates they aim for or if we are already where they aim the droprates to be.
Right now I feel very lost with EHGs devlopment and where they want to end up. On top of it I’m not sure if I can trust them because they turn their coat as they please. From the kickstarter announcment to the bazar thread to the dozens of feedback threads to gifting where we ended up. That’s to big of a twist for my taste.
Almost forgot… if you play in a group you already benefit from getting more loot at least if the groupmembers aren’t useless. IF the devs take this into account they either need to screw coop players over and dimish their drops and balance it differently what makes solo play the best possible way to play. This would be another realy bad thing if they render trade and coop useless :D.
I certainly hope EHG sticks to their vision and what their criteria is for adding any semblance of trade. I think the gifting system even was something they may have still had reservations about. If you think about what they wrote and their goals then even gifting should not actually be needed.
The fact that you even used a 4 LP Omnis as an example baffles me. If anyone showed me that I would ask them how they cheated it in.
I can say with absolute certainty that a 4LP Omnis will NEVER be a requirement for any build. Heck even an Omnis itself is stretching it as a requirement for a build. That’s the entire point. Builds come online very quickly in LE and you can play what you’d like to play while making it more powerful. There’s no need to do monoliths with a skill for 30 some odd levels that you’ll never end up using again. (Obviously I’m speaking strictly about the content post-campaign as you are forced to use some skills until you can unlock later ones.)
I agree, though as a pedant i feel compelled to say that we currently have a trivial early game, but that should change when they get the time to have a good balance pass over the entire campaign.
The fact that your brain stopped working by the omnis and didn’t get anything I wanted to point out baffles me . 4LP Omnis was the most stupid thing that came to my mind and I spoke about an Exsang as well and so on and so forth. It’s about dropchances and what good dropchances look like that make trading useless. I still use trade in D3 leagues and that game showers you in loot.
Everyone and their grandmother is against trade because of “dRoPrAtEs!” so I ask myself if we are at the sweetspot already or if the devs crank it up so a 4LP Omnis (to make an stupid example again) will be a thing or do we get .3876% more blue and yellow items? I don’t know where this is going why I used that example in the first place but let’s go back to the Exsang example:
For my first Exsang I needed ~200h. For the second one I needed ~180h. If I want to play a Build arround Exsang I need to play for a lot of time with a build I don’t like because I need a rare drop. So whats an appropiate droprate? Am I unlucky? What is EHG aiming at? 4LP Omins every now and then or an Exsang every 180h? Will it be higher then D3 levels of droprates to make killing stuff the best way to get gear? Is the droprate increased if your corroption is over 9000 (just maing up numbers again so chill ^^) or from the tutorial? I have MORE questions then answers but that’s maybe related to beeing a non native speaker and I have to read the devpost again that is able to be inpreted in a lot of ways.
I am pretty disappointed hearing that no trade system will be implemented. What is the fun of dropping super rare unique with great legendary potential that I know I will never use because lets say I don’t like playing Marksman builds and this is a bow.
Lot of people suggested some sort of middle ground with account binding items. There could be still items that can only be target farmed and/or crafted legendaries that would bound to our account. In opposite uniques, rares and epic could be traded between players. You still got great system of dismantling items into shards which will stop trade market from being cluttered with trash.
Maybe some sort of difficulties or limitations in trading would do what you want to achieve and making players play the game instead of trade. Like showing only part of available trade offers and refreshing it in some fixed time intervals so players just check the market after refresh?
Even though I enjoy your game mechanics so much I will quickly lose purpose on grinding tens of hours for certain building enabling items because they might not just drop for me. I am definetly not type of SSF grinder and I prefer to spend some time on trade to optimize my build with trade and game mechanics rather than hope for item to drop. Also I hate that feeling in ARPGS that I know I am dropping great item which I could sell for great amount of currency but instead I am just going to put it into my stash and stare at it from time to time, or flex with a screenshot that I dropped it and not use it. In PoE and D2R I can scream of excitement when I drop something rare and expensive knowing that I can sell it, meanwhile playing Singe Player in D2, Last Epoch, Grimdawn and PoE it is like only a smirk on my face when something cool drops.
I do not know, but I just feel like so much fun will be killed this way
That is why I call (PoE) Path of Trading. The only way to make anything is to spend numerous hours doing bulk trades of currency and 1c items to eventually get an upgrade worth the 1%'ers price points
I honestly feel like this whole thread boils down to:
EHG: The rate at which items drop will be sufficient to get the items you seek from playing the game itself, rather than having to rely on trading as the only way to get them. You can even trade in-party within an instance.
Players: But how will I ever be able to get the items I want without open trading?
I didnt read the thread as im busy with new PoE league but at a glance its just a copy of the D3 system which isnt bad but just incentivizes people to play in groups and share their most likely instanced loot as they probably get 4x the loot, might be wrong and ignorant as I didnt read almost all of the text heh
The sad thing is MP took all this time to develop for lots of people to just be disappointed and a solo player cant reap the benefits
Why not just do SSF and Trade leagues? I think honestly the realization this game hasnt been developed with the foresite of trade in mind ahead of time and no staple economy items ie the Chaos Orb in PoE, closest is Glyph of Despair to accomodate trade means the developers had nothing to work with
I said this over and over if there is going to be a free trade system, what are we going to barter with? nobody responded or pushed the issue to the developers, now you have this system in place, whether you wanted it or not its partly the communities fault
There was no discussions of the pillars of an economy just whiners and people arguing about ‘aUtO tRaDe’ and making it ‘toO eAsY’ lol
I guess this puts the 2 year issue to bed and no reason to ever discuss it again
Can you also explain the drops will sufficient around whom? 1 player or 4 player parties? If solo players then why bother to party? If parties well that will be another can of worms.
Get ready for some farming parties(maybe a TFT like discord?) and forum posts how those parties won’t accept you because your build is slow to farm or not using a meta build and whatnot. I can even imagine the reddit posts “The toxic elitist LFM chat messages needs to go”. Oh the casual players, what is a casual player really? No one can actually answer that but lets tweak the drops for our “casual folks” so everyone can “enjoy” the journey, right? Fine by me. As i said before I don’t mind about trade, I’m an SSF guy.
Oh also the sweet journey, right? The journey will be much more great when that sweet uniques and exalts drop. “Finally” I’ll say, “finally it dropped and the hours/days I farmed worth it”. Until the devs decide the journey is not long enough. More content? well since EHG said they will follow a similar season/leagues structure like other arpgs. You can do so much in 3-4 months cycles. Hmm, how can we lengthen the journey then? hmm a little tweak to the drops would suffice i guess?
After a year or so the “cycles” introduced EHG will figure out what GGG figured out. “What if we start the cycles with abysmal drop rates and then buff it a little?” Well the journey will be longer, i promise you that.
You can finetune the trade experience so much than “gifting” but nah it is too much hassle. Lets try with giving away items then we will see i guess.
eh sorry about the rant but sometimes i feel like i’m starting to understand Nefas better when he described toxic casuals.
They would still exists with trading…
Limiting trading within the party also limits how fast they can acquire gear compared to a solo player.
Will there be tryhards that multibox 4 accounts to get the best drops? Sure, but we have to get to compromises if solo and multiplayer have to coexist.
To you maybe others like it. The last season I played I was sick and tired of the build I started with but still farmed for a Tabularasa and won’t drop one and didn’t get enough cards to trade them in for one. So I went to the market and bought one for 14c because I was sick of it. That was all the trading I did and that’s that.
I get the why people are against trading I realy do but right now we have no examples what the drop rates are now and where EHG want them to be and if they look at the metrics of an highly effective speedfarming player to make their descission or if they look at metrics of someone in the middle of the pack.
EHG leaves so many vague a trading system like PoE might be the best thing for LE or maybe not who knows. One thing is for sure… if you don’t want to be confronted with trading PoE is the best trading system there is because if you don’t use 3rd party sites you aren’t confronted with trade by any means.
Your mention of Tabula Rasa is an excellent example of what happens when you have a trading system such as POE. Tabula is one of the strongest items available in the early game of POE. Having the ability to 6 link your gems at level 1 is staggeringly powerful. It is somewhat rare, but not nearly rare enough that you don’t end up with multiple of them dropping by the end of a league.
But because of trading, you even state that you are wasting your time to play the game attempting to gather the item for yourself, because of the collective pool of items that are available for cheap on the trade site. Even though its not even a hard item to get by any stretch of your hyperbole.
This is the issue that the developers are very clearly pointing out. Instead of “Tabula Rasa” being an awesome find during your campaign, it is seen by many as a mandatory leveling item and you should trade for one ASAP. It is no longer about playing the game, and it becomes more about meta gaming and being efficient. There is nothing fun about trading in POE, you just enjoy skipping content.
I didn’t skip any content because I needed to farm the currency to buy it so what? Tabula is the most stupid item PoE ever invented and it’s greate because you can use it for a very long time and it has not much downsites.
Then again there are unlucky streaks and you simply don’t get what you want or need. Easy fix for it: Trade. If someone sells item X for 10k gold and you farmed 10k gold it’s fair game because in both cases you need to play the game to some extend to get the item. Someone who is lucky migt get the item in 5 minutes and someone unlucky might farm millions of gold without seeing the item every dropping. Who is better of? The lcuky rng blessed guy or the person who put dozens of hours into the game?
Trading for a Tabula fast is simply a showcase for bad item design not for a bad trading system. Let’s talk LE terms again… 200h for the first Exsang when i was in my orientation phase in LE and 180h after I know what I did and played efficent and 300ish corruption. People might find the need of grinding time appropiate I don’t but I’m unlucky so the time it needs to drop an Exsang might change depending on luck.
That’s the fun part… no idea what drop rate EHG is aiming for but right now everyone seems to like an rng system on top of an rng system on top of an rng system and so on and so forth depending on base and rarity. I can play 24/7 but I simply don’t want to ^^.
Not really, just lock people in that mode forever like the stupid Masochistic sex mode in this game
The issue for PoE is you can leave self found leagues at anytime you want, just dont give people the option to leave anytime and you can balance and do what you want
Hell is it really that hard to add a 50-100% hidden rarity / 25% quantity buff for solo players, apparently it is. doesnt need to be rocket science just increase the drop rate ffs
And that’s what requires the time to do and test. They aren’t going to just tweak some numbers on a spreadsheet and chuck it out the door.
It’s not that it might be difficult to do it’ll be difficult to make sure it feels reasonable, though that’s the part that would probably be best done with the community.
Did you? Every time I’ve been able to start a new character with a Tabula it’s been so much faster and easier because I’m not limited to 1-2-3-4 socket gems (and you can also get any/every gem you need but that’s a different cup of tea) for a reasonable duration at the start of the character.
. 4LP Omnis was the most stupid thing that came to my mind and I spoke about an Exsang as well and so on and so forth. It’s about dropchances and what good dropchances look like that make trading useless. I still use trade in D3 leagues and that game showers you in loot.