Lmao no-one would use the other skills in that case. Warpath has multiple advantages over the other default attacks primarily the ability to move and deal damage at the same time, a faster attack rate with much more ailment proccing, fire and void conversions, etc. Its absolutely intended that you need to figure out ways to manage mana for other skills.
Possible, check out builds by Dr3adful on Youtube (Warpath Smite Holy Aura Paladins) if you want a reference.
No… I don’t mind 2/5 Unchained with 1/1 Reckless Spin. I take them and expect them to pretty much be a necessity for all Warpath builds.
If you’re trying to play spin to win, you prrrrrobably don’t wanna be standing still… ever. Especially when defensive bonuses like Resistances while Channeling fall off soon as you stop channeling the skill. And the mana regen is a moot point… what good is mana regen if it doesn’t have an effect when I need it? No one wants to be running around waiting for mana to regen, Warpath or not… even if it took 2 seconds to get the entire bar back, that would be a clunky af playstyle.
Again, the only option besides a 2H with Dark Nexus really is VK Reversal. Or is it not?
And yea, I used Rebuke with the Rebuke amulet while this guy was a Shield Thrower (respec’d him earlier), but that wouldn’t be much more dependable in a Warpath build. I did use it while in Act 1, but… 
Honestly reminds me of D3 1.0 Barbarian’s playstyle before people discovered the crit/Run Like the Wind Whirlwind builds. I wonder if there’s something like that here that we’re missing, but judging from how much some of you guys have tested, it looks like there isn’t.
I absolutely understand that Warpath has the movement advantage, which is why I’m mostly using that atm for progression. Makes learning boss mechanics and such a lot easier. But it also has a reduced proc rate from what I understand and kinda doesn’t hit nearly as hard as other skills (especially not other classes’ skills, but I don’t mean to digress).
Having to manage mana is never fun and games should be fun. Not saying this one isn’t (I can see myself playing LE for quite a while longer), but having to manage mana should be a thing while in the early and perhaps mid-game stages to incentivize character development. Forcing us to play like we’re level 10 when we’re level 90 doesn’t seem like the play to me. This is definitely more subjective than the most of my other posts, but pretty sure a lot of you would agree.
Gonna have to check Dr3ad’s video and see what method he’s using. Hopefully it doesn’t involve standing still…
Well seems the argument has gone from ‘why no mana sustain other than VR’ to ‘give me mana sustain while I channel Warpath’.
Removing mana costs from all skills would solve this i guess… and at that point Life too since dying is nevar fun and game should fun.
It’s not just Warpath struggling with mana, and almost everywhere I look, the workaround (if you can call it that) is to take VR. I’m obviously talking about Warpath now because it’s the most egregious example of a Sentinel skill with mana issues that can only be resolved with VR (or, again, Dark Nexus).
This Forge Guard has mana issues too, and no, he’s not Warpath. He actually uses Multistrike with T+F and is still oom like half the time.
Also, stop twisting my words and failing to understand what I’m saying. You’re trying to imply that removing the need for constant, boring mana management at endgame is the same as to remove all challenge from a video game? Think of a better analogy. I don’t expect mana management* to be “free”, but the option should be there, and right now it’s not.
You stop spinning to do something to regain mana.
You use Volatile Reversal.
2-H weapon with the node.
You try to reduce the mana cost of the auto-cast skill to 0. Summoning forged weapons didn’t cost anything in beta IIRC, and smite can cost 0 mana. Sigils can be summoned on kill.
There are multiple ways to build around it, maybe just not exactly the way you want it. That doesn’t make it a flaw.
Please post your build, thanks.
Didn’t I just mention all of these? Forge Strike costs mana btw. Stop trying to make it into a skill issue when it’s not. I am pretty much perfectly synergized for FS FG aside from my gear and level and it’s still not the smooth playstyle it could (and should) be. This also isn’t the only skill that results in a clunky* playstyle for us. Only truly viable builds for pushing on a Sentinel atm are Hammer Throw this, Hammer Throw that and VK Warpath. All of them use VR (and yes, I’m aware of Spear builds). I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re both hypocrites and are using VR as we speak… Literally the only strong build I can think of that doesn’t use VR is Healing Hands and that sh*t is busted for other reasons.
Something like this from Dr3adful. DW Flameburst paladin has always been a popular choice. The build remains the exact same in 1.0.1.2.
You can also play S/B or 2H ignite/bleed Warpath paladin in empowered monolith. You might not be pushing 1k Corruption on those builds but they’re perfectly viable in the current content.
a) I didn’t read the whole thread before replying.
b) I don’t talk about skill issues.
c) forge strike consumes mana, summoning forge weapons via warpath used not to consume mana, though.
d) I actually hate VR, so no. Also, I don’t argue that it shouldn’t be used. It’s one possible way to build a character. I’m including it for the first time into the paladin I’m building right now - and that will be a vengeance rebuke counter attack flame burst divine bolt abdomination that might totally fail 
I just got it, have reached monolith, and not yet pressed it. It’s just there for some extra oomph when facetanking bosses, as my build has no mana issue by design.
e) I played with various variants of Judgement in Beta and despecced VR because of the positional reset. Have I mentioned that I hate that skill?
f) no need to get personal ^^
I am, in fact, playing an ignite-focused 2H Warpather in Empowered Monos. The other dude (which I’m on right now) is more for testing. I don’t expect to get 1k corr as solo FG, but it would be nice if I could at least get close. Anyway, that’s not what this is about… the class really does feel clunky most of the time unless you stick VR in your build. T+F is a great start, but even a buff to it or just similar alternatives for other skills would be nice.
I appreciate your input, btw.
My pleasure although that particular post was in response to Ringo not believing paladin Warpath was viable in empowered Was offering up some suggestions for him to play
a) I can tell. 
b) Sorry, I’m just used to that being the case in most of these forums where so many white knights lurk.
c) It also procs a lot less often and seems to be a not-nearly-as-reliable alternative.
d) Good. I do too, but only because it feels like a necessity atm. I never even suggested it shouldn’t be used. In fact, if you’re a Spike and you’re tryharding for the highest possible arena clear or corruption level, then by all means…
e) Yea, the positional reset really just makes it worse. Skill is kinda fine as it is. It definitely has its downside to compensate for the gross upside already.
f) I know I know… not calling you a hypocrite per se. Just wondering whether you were hiding VR on your action bar.
I’m chiming in because you called this a class thread and not a warpath thread. Im playing no cooldown judgement pally with lots of added spells costing mana like divine bolts and healing hands for example.
I have no issues with mana. I have mana and mana regen on lots of my equipment. Belt is 48% mana regen for example. I can almost indefinitely spam judgement and 3 sigils and not run out of mana.
That should not work, though. The 20% current mana consumption of Judgement means your maximum mana adds to the oomph, but you will drain very quickly.
In beta, I played with “Hand of Judgement” - no healing hands, of course. If you really spam no-cooldown Judgement, not even 25 mana regen/s (+400% increased mana regeneration) will keep you spamming. Gameplay was more like strategically placing Judgement, with the occasional 3-hit burst to quickly dispatch a siege golem or something similar tanky.
Early game, when almost everything dies in a single hit, you feel like it works - but as soon as you go empowered monolith, the enemies damage reduction and increased health will make them survive the one or other hit.
That’s one important point that JustBunter added: viable
Now, with keeping half an eye on my mana, it was totally viable for 100-200 mana. Bosses with their insane health pool were a problem - your theoretical DPS suffers from the time until your mana gets back into the positive.
That’s just my experience.
Stop with the “Warpath Warpath Warpath”. This thread ISN’T about Warpath; YOU’RE turning it into a Warpath thread. I used it as an example at one point and now some of you can’t let go as if you found a flaw in my claim. Shield Throw suffers from massive mana issues even with Foot of the Mountain; so does Forge Strike. I’ve played three skills so far and they all kinda suck in terms of mana management, constantly going oom and making me wait ~0.5-1.5sec in between attacks. There is no way around it, not even Rebuke.
Finally caving in and going Hammerdin… with VR. gg
edit: And yes, I was already aware that not every single Sentinel build in existence uses VR; it’s just the large majority of them (because we lack alternatives).
edit 2: Should’ve simply posted this sooner… Build Guides Last Epoch - Last Epoch Maxroll.gg
The plus 40 mana cost replaces the % consumption of pious offering so it’s judgement base cost plus 40 mana. It’s not that expensive.
I only got to level 90 pre launch but it was working great back then. Now with healing hands I feel even more tanky and deadly.
It does not remove the 20% consumption. It says that the mana cost of judgement count towards the damage increase that usually only applies to the consumption.
Now, I have quickly respecced my old paladin to smash with judgement again: 251 max mana. The cost of judgement with “hand of judgement”: 43.
When attacking while having max mana, it drops down to 167.
251 * 0.2 = 50.2.
251-(50.2+43) = 157.8
I don’t know why it only drops to 167, but in general, the 20% consumption do work.
2 strikes in succession brings me down to about 105 - a bit of mana has already regenerated.
5 * judgement in a row and I’m empty. Since I would go down ~ negative 40 mana, I would need, with 300% increased mana reg, about 2 seconds to get enough mana - not considering the option that I could use other strategies to regain mana, of course.
So, indefinitely spamming Judgement with no cooldown - I don’t see that happen.
Yes, but many builds use VR as a damage boost without mana regen, so they get the 300% cooldown recovery speed. Like Smite or Bleed Hammerdins. Dang, with Smite, there are builds that want to go as negative into the mana as possible
VR is a very potent tool in many builds, either for mana regen or as a damage boost. It’s almost always the best utility skill you can take - which means it is boringly powerful in design.
Edit: from the guides behind the link, only the minority uses VR for mana regen.
Edit 2: (to actually add something to the debate)
One major problem with the other ways to regenerate mana, like hitting with vengeance/rive/multistrike, is that they are all 100% melee oriented and have no synergy at all with e.g. shield throw builds.
Not to mention they make you stand completely still which is not ideal in most cases.
I gotta admit, I’ve yet to play the other classes to know whether it’s an “us” issue or if it’s just that every class struggles with mana like we do. I’m hoping it’s just us (so that the class can be balanced without breaking EHG’s design philosophy) because having to stop playing the build and skill I wanna be playing to generate resource never feels good. If it’s necessary, then sure, I’ll adapt and deal with it, but it honestly does not consitute a fun playstyle. Hoping this can be changed in the near future. Would smoothen out the Sentinel playstyle opening up a ton of build options in the process, and options are probably the one thing that give an RPG most of its replay value.
P.S. I opened four of the guide links and three of them had “Mana Management” listed as a con. Pretty sure it’s not just me…
Lmao opened this thread to see the memes and they just keep coming.
The skill which has nodes allowing to reduce its mana cost by upto -20(which is its base cost) as well as a node with -5 mana and the option to reduce mana cost(-3 to -5) through rings?
Have you actually opened any of the builds there?
Holy Trail Javelin, Nova Hammerdin, Smite Hammerdin, Smite shield throw, Smite hammer throw, electrify javelin, bleed hammerdin, Rive Void Knight. More than half the builds you’ve linked use a special node in Volatile Reversal called Timelost Wisdom(fitting for this situation) which makes it so VR DOES NOT RESTORE MANA.