Is Usperper's Mandate effected by healing effectiveness?

[Bipst]

Or is the best way to increase its healing to just have more minions?

[Llama8]

No, it’s life on minion death, not a heal on minion death.

[Zaodon]

If Usurper’s is not affected by healing effectiveness because it says “Gain”, is Death Rattle affected by Healing Effectiveness because it says “Regain” ? You cannot possibly argue that “Regain 30 health” isn’t healing. It’s totally healing.

edit: in fact, Dammit’s build planner says Usurpers “Regains health” in the explanatory text/tooltip text. So healing effectiveness should work.

2nd edit: I have yet to literally “Gain” health. i.e. more health than I actually possess, it only “heals” me if I’m wounded, which is even more evidence that it’s a heal and not a “health gain”.

[Llama8]

No, gain/regain health aren’t heals any more than leech is a heal. Skills (eg, healing hands, eterra’s blessing) and procs (the Pally’s holy symbol) are heals.

Does death rattle say that you are healed on minion death?

@Zaodon

2nd edit: I have yet to literally “Gain” health. i.e. more health than I actually possess, it only “heals” me if I’m wounded, which is even more evidence that it’s a heal and not a “health gain”.

OK, test it yourself then. Get some healing effectiveness, equip an Exsanguinous/Last steps and have a minion hit the training dummy and see how much hp you gain.

Also, given your logic, every form of hp sustain would be counted as a heal because you can’t leech more hp than you have max hp, you can’t get more hp via time and faith than you have max hp, etc.

[Llama8]

Having done some simple testing (with ~300% healing effectiveness), no, it’s not affected by healing effectiveness 'cause it’s not a heal.

[Zaodon]

I am not commenting on how it is. I am commenting on how it should be. Leech is different because the amount of health is like a DoT, except it’s a HoT. You hit for 1000. You leech 10% (100). You don’t gain 100, you gain 100 over X seconds. I’m ok with leech being different and not affected by healing effectiveness.

But anything which says “You gain 100 health” is a heal. Eterra’s and Usurper’s and Death Rattle have nearly identical wording and 100% identical effects - a lump of healing, all at once. There is no logical reason why Healing Effectiveness should be disabled for Usurpers and Death Rattle. That’s my point. I view it as a bug (whether a legit defect or a design bug.)

[Llama8]

There are 4 different ways to regain HP (ignoring potions):

1. A heal spell/skill (Eterra’s Blessing, Holy Symbol procs, etc)
2. Life on XXX (life on melee hit, life on kill, Usurper’s proc, Death Rattle proc)
3. Leech
4. Regen

They are all separate & while they get you to the same place (more HP), the game treats them differently for variety.

#1 are affected by healing effectiveness. #2 are affected by “hit rate” (either yours, your minions or how quickly they die, etc). #3 is affected by leech effectiveness & #4 is affected by % increased regen.

It’s a different design decision which isn’t a “bug” just a different choice (for the same reason they didn’t copy D3’s skill design or PoE’s skill gems, they wanted to make their game differently).

Could they rework all forms of hp replenishment to make them all heals? Sure, with a bit of numerical tweaking, but that’d be boring & reduce the “design space”.

@Zaodon

There is no logical reason why Healing Effectiveness should be disabled for Usurpers and Death Rattle.

Apart from “it’s not a heal”, just like there’s no “logical reason” for melee attacks to not scale with % spell damage since both spells & melee attacks do damage to mobs therefore they should be classified the same way & scale off the same modifiers.

You just need to get your head around the “they aren’t heals” fact.

[Zaodon]

AHA! I knew it! There is no such thing as “Life Gain” in Last Epoch!

Community Game Guide

Preface First, I’d like to thank EHG for providing the tremendous resource that is the in-game Game Guide. I’ve often wanted to access it outside the game so I’ve recreated it here, with some additional content. While this Game Guide is nearly identical to its in-game counterpart, I did add the word community to the title because all sections of this guide effectively function as ‘wiki’s’ - that is to say, they can be edited by most members of this forum community. If you find any errors, or w…

Healing VS Leech VS Regen VS Ward Gen

Listed from best to worst for end game viability Leech Ward Gen Regen Healing Why this order? Leech is by far and wide the strongest health replenishment source. No argument. Why? Because its very proactive, it can protect you 3 seconds into the future and with unlimited amounts. The more damage you do, the more protection for the same amount of leech. Ill explain. Your at full health, you hit a mob for 100 damage, you leech 30% hit damage, you leech back 30 health over 3 seconds or 10HP…

Healing Effectiveness should affect Usurpers and Death Rattle!

[AndrewTilley]

The health gained from Usurper’s Mandate or Death Rattle does not come from a healing skill, so they would not be affected by healing effectiveness.

Healing Effectiveness increases the amount healed by your healing skills. This does not affect health gained from other sources.

[Zaodon]

I had the there just to poke fun

[AndrewTilley]

Ah, my bad…though I was somewhat split on whether you were joking or not. I always find it hard to judge context without knowing the person beforehand.

[Shrukn]

@Zaodon

But anything which says “You gain 100 health” is a heal

'Gain/Regain is essentially ‘life on kill’ in LE. cant be scaled as far as i remember and pretty much only appears on gear and maybe Reaper Form or something unremarkable

Anything with HEALing actually scales off Healing Effectiveness, thats all nothing more these are usually from SKILLS

Leech is damage leeched over 3 seconds affected by raw damage and leech rate which is a rare stat

If Maelstroms ‘healing’ which scales off healing effect was changed to ‘regain 10hp per stack’ it wouldnt scale

Theres nothing more to discuss regarding this, just because YOU believe it to be doesnt make it true and its pretty straightforward

[Zaodon]

If I break my toe, it will take time to heal.
If I use Death Rattle, and my minion dies, and I return to full health, is my toe still broken? Or has it…

… healed?

[Shrukn]

its still broken because Death Rattle doesnt repair broken bones it just Refills your lost life on minion death (which cannot be scaled by Healing effectiveness remember we just discussed this)

If I spill a drink and REFILL it, I did not ‘heal’ my cup. I just refilled it, again my cup did not get scaled by healing effectiveness

[Zaodon]

I’m just pointing out the absolute absurdity of saying that “gaining health” (and especially “regaining”) isn’t healing, when healing is defined as “regaining health.”

The Affix should be named “Healing Skill Effectiveness” because that’s how it works. But to say gain/regaining health isn’t healing is just silly.

[Llama8]

I’d refer you to my previous comment about your argument requiring all forms of life replenishment to scale with healing effectiveness. But I can’t be arsed.

[Zaodon]

Right, but as I pointed out, it’s wrong according to the Game Guide. There is no official “gain life but its not healing” in there. Again, its patently silly to call life gain “Not Healing”. It’s not a Healing Skill on the Skill Tree, that’s totally accurate. And the affix could be named “Healing Skill Effectiveness” and only affect Healing Skills on the Skill Tree, and that’s totally accurate too.

Calling the affix “Healing Effectiveness” but having it not affect all healing is ridiculously inaccurate.

p.s. Warcry’s heal is “Healing”, but it has to spell out in its text that it is affected by healing effectiveness. So, its not a Healing Skill, but has a node which is marked with the word “Healing”, but still needs text to relate that healing effectiveness applies to it.

End result - Healing effectiveness is not properly documented, nor is it properly applied in the game using clear, simple terminology, and should be updated accordingly.