Is Usperper's Mandate effected by healing effectiveness?

Or is the best way to increase its healing to just have more minions?

No, itā€™s life on minion death, not a heal on minion death.

If Usurperā€™s is not affected by healing effectiveness because it says ā€œGainā€, is Death Rattle affected by Healing Effectiveness because it says ā€œRegainā€ ? You cannot possibly argue that ā€œRegain 30 healthā€ isnā€™t healing. Itā€™s totally healing.

edit: in fact, Dammitā€™s build planner says Usurpers ā€œRegains healthā€ in the explanatory text/tooltip text. So healing effectiveness should work.

2nd edit: I have yet to literally ā€œGainā€ health. i.e. more health than I actually possess, it only ā€œhealsā€ me if Iā€™m wounded, which is even more evidence that itā€™s a heal and not a ā€œhealth gainā€.

No, gain/regain health arenā€™t heals any more than leech is a heal. Skills (eg, healing hands, eterraā€™s blessing) and procs (the Pallyā€™s holy symbol) are heals.

Does death rattle say that you are healed on minion death?

OK, test it yourself then. Get some healing effectiveness, equip an Exsanguinous/Last steps and have a minion hit the training dummy and see how much hp you gain.

Also, given your logic, every form of hp sustain would be counted as a heal because you canā€™t leech more hp than you have max hp, you canā€™t get more hp via time and faith than you have max hp, etc.

Having done some simple testing (with ~300% healing effectiveness), no, itā€™s not affected by healing effectiveness 'cause itā€™s not a heal.

I am not commenting on how it is. I am commenting on how it should be. Leech is different because the amount of health is like a DoT, except itā€™s a HoT. You hit for 1000. You leech 10% (100). You donā€™t gain 100, you gain 100 over X seconds. Iā€™m ok with leech being different and not affected by healing effectiveness.

But anything which says ā€œYou gain 100 healthā€ is a heal. Eterraā€™s and Usurperā€™s and Death Rattle have nearly identical wording and 100% identical effects - a lump of healing, all at once. There is no logical reason why Healing Effectiveness should be disabled for Usurpers and Death Rattle. Thatā€™s my point. I view it as a bug (whether a legit defect or a design bug.)

There are 4 different ways to regain HP (ignoring potions):

  1. A heal spell/skill (Eterraā€™s Blessing, Holy Symbol procs, etc)
  2. Life on XXX (life on melee hit, life on kill, Usurperā€™s proc, Death Rattle proc)
  3. Leech
  4. Regen

They are all separate & while they get you to the same place (more HP), the game treats them differently for variety.

#1 are affected by healing effectiveness. #2 are affected by ā€œhit rateā€ (either yours, your minions or how quickly they die, etc). #3 is affected by leech effectiveness & #4 is affected by % increased regen.

Itā€™s a different design decision which isnā€™t a ā€œbugā€ just a different choice (for the same reason they didnā€™t copy D3ā€™s skill design or PoEā€™s skill gems, they wanted to make their game differently).

Could they rework all forms of hp replenishment to make them all heals? Sure, with a bit of numerical tweaking, but thatā€™d be boring & reduce the ā€œdesign spaceā€.

Apart from ā€œitā€™s not a healā€, just like thereā€™s no ā€œlogical reasonā€ for melee attacks to not scale with % spell damage since both spells & melee attacks do damage to mobs therefore they should be classified the same way & scale off the same modifiers.

You just need to get your head around the ā€œthey arenā€™t healsā€ fact.

AHA! I knew it! There is no such thing as ā€œLife Gainā€ in Last Epoch!

Healing Effectiveness should affect Usurpers and Death Rattle! :stuck_out_tongue:

The health gained from Usurperā€™s Mandate or Death Rattle does not come from a healing skill, so they would not be affected by healing effectiveness.

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I had the :stuck_out_tongue: there just to poke fun :slight_smile:

Ah, my badā€¦though I was somewhat split on whether you were joking or not. I always find it hard to judge context without knowing the person beforehand.

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'Gain/Regain is essentially ā€˜life on killā€™ in LE. cant be scaled as far as i remember and pretty much only appears on gear and maybe Reaper Form or something unremarkable

Anything with HEALing actually scales off Healing Effectiveness, thats all nothing more these are usually from SKILLS

Leech is damage leeched over 3 seconds affected by raw damage and leech rate which is a rare stat

If Maelstroms ā€˜healingā€™ which scales off healing effect was changed to ā€˜regain 10hp per stackā€™ it wouldnt scale

Theres nothing more to discuss regarding this, just because YOU believe it to be doesnt make it true and its pretty straightforward

If I break my toe, it will take time to heal.
If I use Death Rattle, and my minion dies, and I return to full health, is my toe still broken? Or has itā€¦

ā€¦ healed?

its still broken because Death Rattle doesnt repair broken bones it just Refills your lost life on minion death (which cannot be scaled by Healing effectiveness remember we just discussed this)

If I spill a drink and REFILL it, I did not ā€˜healā€™ my cup. I just refilled it, again my cup did not get scaled by healing effectiveness

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Iā€™m just pointing out the absolute absurdity of saying that ā€œgaining healthā€ (and especially ā€œregainingā€) isnā€™t healing, when healing is defined as ā€œregaining health.ā€

The Affix should be named ā€œHealing Skill Effectivenessā€ because thatā€™s how it works. But to say gain/regaining health isnā€™t healing is just silly.

Iā€™d refer you to my previous comment about your argument requiring all forms of life replenishment to scale with healing effectiveness. But I canā€™t be arsed.

Right, but as I pointed out, itā€™s wrong according to the Game Guide. There is no official ā€œgain life but its not healingā€ in there. Again, its patently silly to call life gain ā€œNot Healingā€. Itā€™s not a Healing Skill on the Skill Tree, thatā€™s totally accurate. And the affix could be named ā€œHealing Skill Effectivenessā€ and only affect Healing Skills on the Skill Tree, and thatā€™s totally accurate too.

Calling the affix ā€œHealing Effectivenessā€ but having it not affect all healing is ridiculously inaccurate.

p.s. Warcryā€™s heal is ā€œHealingā€, but it has to spell out in its text that it is affected by healing effectiveness. So, its not a Healing Skill, but has a node which is marked with the word ā€œHealingā€, but still needs text to relate that healing effectiveness applies to it.

End result - Healing effectiveness is not properly documented, nor is it properly applied in the game using clear, simple terminology, and should be updated accordingly.

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