You can still alt other classes. I don’t see the fun in having 3 alts for every class so that you can enjoy the game to its full potential.
Since when is optional stuff bad when it’s requested again and again and again and again. To me it looks like peopel feel a need for it and that alone makes me think: “Why not?”. Make restrictions like people who respecc can’t compete for leaderboards and you’ll never be in any way shape or form handicaped by that option.
I never respecced a D3 build once it was up and running because i had no need to do so. In PoE I even play builds that needs a ton of regrets at a certain point when I swap gear to transition into the build I want to play. Last league (or this league?) there were those people in the sidezones that offer you different skill trees and I picked the one I changed them as I see them fit. Somehow people have no issues with this and still play the game ^^.
I would never change my class mastery in LE because I play the class mastery I want but I think it’s not bad if people who took a Lich because it sounded fun want to play Warlock and switch their class. This has 0 impact on me and is an option to make beginners lifes better and in some weeks or months it’s a non issue anymore because the people who are left and play the game know what they buy into.
Again, this is a disingenuous argument. It’s like saying P2W isn’t a problem because you don’t have to pay.
Yes, D3 didn’t fail exclusively because of the loadouts. It was just another symptom. Everything D3 did was to make the game easy and immediate. And ARPG players, as a rule, don’t want easy and immediate. That’s boring.
All these things are a part of a game’s identity. If you make respecs immediate like in D3, and you then allow for mastery respec. And you then allow for the next easy change, you end up with another D3. And you end up with the D3 playerbase because the others left.
You don’t see the fun in it, but both the devs and a lot of players do. Which is fine. Not every game is for every player.
There have been lots and lots of threads already about P2W things. It’s optional, so it must not be bad, right?
Just because something is requested a lot doesn’t mean it should go in the game. Like I said, it’s a matter of the game identity. Just go look at FromSoftware forums and count how many requests they’ve had for basic QoL features which they’ve refused to add to the game. And yet they’re still very successful games. Not in spite of not adding those things, but exactly because they didn’t. It’s part of the identity.
Adding easy QoL features isn’t necessarily good. In some cases it just dilutes the game’s identity.
From the Core of it P2W offers you benefits you can’t get in another way. So it’s not optional if you want to play P2W themed games. P2W drasticly dimishes the fun of people who not P2W. If Player A respecced their mastery is in no way hurting Player B as long as they are removed from races and leaderboards by using this option.
Again, nobody is talking about “easy and immediate” PoE is one of the best ARPGs there is and you are able to respec everything if you so desire. Comparing this to P2W is not valid since P2W does give benefits for money to a player that others don’t get.
Just FYI, it is possible to respec in most of the souls games.
Because options sometimes can hurt the overall game, experience and perceptions of it and devalue it. (So mindset/mentality/perception matters as well)
Like to give you a few examples:
If you have a game which is sold too you with having many different choices (via dialog and what you do) but in the End is always the same and the only real difference is the flavor text in dialogue, is that really a Choice? Does it really use it’s potential. Because i’d argue rather not. I mean there isn’t anything inhertily wrong to go / deliever games with make a more customizable experience with flavourtext, but if you want to deliever a game with meaningfull-choices, they need to have some sort of impact, esp. on Endings otherwise it won’t work out. That’s a reason why Mass Effect 3 on Release had so many fans letdown, because the series had a huge buildup, where it give you many choices, but didn’t matter in the end because the conclusion was for everyone the same.
Another example for this would be (to go more in the F2P/ online-area) pay2win. In older days it often was straight out (like runes of magic if remember correctly) → you can only get good gear with buying… exclusively. But even at the times where this changed more and more towards (as how some people call it) ‘pay for convinience’ where it’s more of an time-saver → and even with taking ‘artificial balancing around grinding to stretch playtime out so it encourages / forces you to pay for convinience’ out of context but going in a more fairly / normally balanced idea → it does effect your mindset / mentality when you see you did all the work, put effort and thoughts into your playthrough and every second person just use the wallet… it really kills alot of the feeling of the rewards/experience of it because of that.
For some stuff, esp. for certain genres and concepts, mindset/mentality is as much as important. And the matter of fact of an option simply existing despite someone using it or not, just for the fact alone that it exist it kills alot of value and meaning of the game/features/core-experience. And that’s even without context that when devs give you tools for beeing more efficient, that you’re also indirectly encouraged(or even forced based on what we’re talking about) to use it. And esp. ARPG’s which are a lot about efficiency this issue should be visible.
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Dafuq? Are you high? If I pick a templar I’m a templar and can’t change it. If I want to be a ranger i need to play a new toon. People look at Masteries the same way in LE and therefor alone their sight of view is valid. Or am I high and played all my other alts for nothing because PoE allows class changes and I never heared about it?
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Dafuq? Are you high? If Masteries in LE are the same as classes, why aren’t they classes? In PoE you can change your Ascendancy with orbs of regret, you heard it here first.
For clarification this is about switching from warlock to necromancer/lich not from templar to ranger.
Not necessarily. They can simply give you benefits immediately that would take you many hours to get otherwise.
It’s a matter of mentality and permanence. If you know that your build can become any other build with a click of a button, then the character isn’t special. Personally, I’d rather see more friction rather than less. It’s already way too easy to respec for my taste. And yes, if we got loadouts and instant respec, I would probably stop playing, or play only a couple weeks per year like I did with D3.
PoE gates respeccing behind currency. It takes time to farm and it makes respeccing for casuals a huge chore and something they can’t easily do.
LE respeccing is a matter of spending a small amount of gold and releveling your skills, which you easily do at endgame. You already have easy respec.
You just don’t have mastery respec because to the devs (and many players) your mastery IS your class. And you don’t respec classes.
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They are. If you look at the character creation and select a mastery, it will tell you that “Your Mastery CLASS is selected later in the campaign”. This is all just a perception issue. If you selected your mastery at character creation, barely anyone would be talking about it.
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Let’s make a very quick experiment :
Open Last Epoch, and go to create a new character. Select a game mode, then click any of the 5 characters. Then click on any of the masteries, and look at the right side of the screen. You can see there “Mastery Class is chosen during the campaign”.
They’re a classes, - just ‘advanced classes’ or do you geniunly want to claim / tell me, not only just for LE - but in general, that Necromancer and Warlock are the same class but with a different focus?!
Actually that’s my biggest gripe about Last Epoch if it comes down to this particular case, the semantics are kinda poorly choosen, because that’s why some people geniunly struggle to get behind the concept of it. Because Masteries in sense of Specialication would be more like - Sorcer deciding between Fire,- Ice or Lighting… not between different sub/advanced classes like battlemage(spellblade) or invoker (runemage) → and for most other games this would be the classes you pick from the getgo, LE was just nice enough to give a room to explore before taking the meaningfull decision of pick one (and also allow to dip a bit in other areas).
Though than again i don’t see where the misconception of masteries being specialications and not classes - considering the only game i know with masteries as well is Grim Dawn, and for that as well it was picking your actuall class(es) and you are also locked in on your choice.
But you don’t. Making this about wording is not helpful.
You argue this game has 15 classes, I argue it has 5.
I am starting to think that maybe a visual change on the character upon Mastery selection would help settle the feeling that the character’s class is being defined, rather than just some form of extra passive.
Maybe that would actually help, yes.
If you just want to argue, then the devs have said that mastery IS your class, so there really are 15 of them. They’re the ones that put it in the game, they should know.
It is mind boggeling to me that you think demanding the time investment to try everything beeing leveling 15 different characters is somewhat feasible. Again making this about wording is not helpful.
They are even called mastery classe in the char screen when you pick your toon. It’s just a consitency problem with termenology from EHG and content creators. You are by EHG’s defenition no longer a Sentinel as a class but a Paladin if you choose this mastery class. It’s semantics at the end of the day but this is how it’s officaly handled. You class changes when you pick a mastery class. In PoE ways this is like if you are able to switch from Templar to Scion.
So for clarification I get your point but the definitions in both games are highly different and the people in here eat what they are spoonfed most of the time ^^.
Depending on how you interpret P2W because P2W offers you normaly power for money you don’t get otherwise or only so little that it makes no difference. Look at DI for example. In theory everyone is able to play the game. It tooks just hundrets of years to get to a point where a whale was hundrets of years ago by swiping.
Non of my toons are special to me because if LE makes a bad descission tomorrow and they went bankrupt because of whatever reason all my colourfull pixels are gone. I have no toon in my roster an think “Oh there lady Rottalot! my first Necromancer! She is so outstanding compared to all my other necromancers!”. At the end of the day all toons in LE are the same and the only differences are the distribution of skillpoints and items. I can’t understand how this is special to someone but this might be truely a mentality thing.
I found it funny that you also was thinking of P2W if it comes down to this topic (i was typing when you wrote this so i didn’t see it until i dropped my post^^)
But yeah it’s kinda funny how skewed - again funnily as we carry on this topic - the perception over the semantics here. I mean maybe it’s fair to put a distinction between actual P2W and ‘Pay to convinience’ because the old P2W Days were much worse and harsher. But i feel like the point is missed, potentially on purpose, because in both regards it can impact towards a bad gameplay-experience even if OG P2W is worse then ‘modern’ ones.
Yeah like i said, it seems like a weird semantic thing where people struggle to grasp the concept with. Maybe EHG should really adress this in future and make it even more clear that the Masteries are your ‘advanced’/‘actual’ class picks, than mastery as people take it as an specialication, despite how (IMHO) obvious it actually should be - esp. when examples like Necromancer or Warlock, Archer or Bladedancer exist and further on. Baseclasses in this game are more of an category thing then the actual classes you pick later (so it makes more clear what kind of classes is - like as example void-knight, paladin, forge guard are classes for the robust melee’ish/knight’ish category).
But than again i don’t think it would completly stop, even if they would change the name/semantics of it, because that doesn’t change the core-idea of being able to switch back and forth between everything for them, it’s just less ground for an argument of them because they know themself how ridiculus of an request it can be (or atleast come off to the general public perception) if you ask for a classbased / class-fantasy game to be able to change them. Like i bet quite some of them would take it with open arms when they could change even base classes in most other arpgs.
Again, this is an issue about what type of player you are. You and many others don’t like making new characters and that’s fine. I and many others like making new characters and that’s fine too. Some games cater more to you, some cater more to me. LE’s systems are all made with the philosophy of making new characters. It’s a game I enjoy. D3 isn’t and it’s a game I don’t enjoy.
Like I said before, not every game is for every player. And if you don’t enjoy this, maybe LE isn’t for you. And if someday the devs cave in and change this, then LE won’t be the game for me.
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