Are all % increases inside a specific skill’s tree acting as multiplicative with % increases outside the tree (ie gear or passives)? I believe there was a post which claimed this to be the case for % increased damage, but I do not know if this applies to % increased attack speed. In theory it should, but in practice the values for % ias are so much lower that in most cases a multiplicative % ias from the skill tree is less than if it’s simply additive.
Yes, the vast majority (but not all) of damage modifiers within skill trees are “more” rather than the “increased” that you see outside of skill trees (though there are a few passives that give more modifiers). I don’t think it does apply to attack speed modifiers within skill trees as they don’t say “multiplicative with other modifiers” like the damage ones do.
I think most, if nto all tooltips that modify damage inside a skill spec tree will always say “increased” or “more”.
Most of them are more modifiers.
I think rogue is the class that has the most that are specifically “increased”, especially all the ones in skill spec tree, that can buff other skills. (For example damage buffs in Dancing Strike, Shift and Dark Quiver)
This quote from Reimerh_QArts may be relevant (but there is no guarantee that it still holds):
That was a very long time ago before they changed them all to “more”.
The answer by EX-RATT is what I was looking for. As an example, the Tempered Blows node on Smelter’s Wrath gives 10% increased damage per second charged. Logically, this points to % increases being multiplicative with % increases from gear. However, I am primarily concerned over the question of the Alacrity node on Shurikens, which is giving 5% ias per point. Having thought about it further, if you have 1 aps and 50% ias with a point in the 5% node, IF it is multiplicative then this should translate to an equivalent total % ias value of 57.5%, which is worth 50% more than if it was additive.
All damage modifiers inside skill trees are multiplicative now. That way players no longer need to know the old hidden mechanic of skill trees modifiers being multiplicative with modifiers from outside tress. Now it literally says it on each of those nodes. If a node doesn’t say (multiplicative with other modifiers) in the description, that’s a bug. But they are multiplicative in the background now, always, even with other damage modifiers on the tree (which wasn’t the case before).
Could you please clarify if this also applies to % increased attack speed modifiers inside a skill tree as well, or only damage modifiers?
This has always only been with % damage modifiers. Not attack speed, crit etc.
I’m confused. All modifiers which modify the damage inside a tree are now more modifiers even when they say “increase damage”? That changes a lot for me…
It would be really good with an example, but yes, if a node says “increased damage” it is likely a mistake and should be change, but it will function as a ‘more’ multiplier. A few patches ago we used to do that and modifiers were not multiplicative with other modifiers within the skill tree. Hence ‘increased damage’ made sense back then. But now all generic damage modifiers are actually multiplicative, so they should say so.
Mh, didn’t found an example in a quick look at the skills I thought there were confusions. I think my confusion was mostly related to skills which provides general buffs which are mostly increases besides maybe the warpath node draining assault which is a global more while channeling.
A question related is related to the fact that these modifers are more modifiers:
If a talent increases (more, multiplicative) the damage of the skill and does not specifiy hit, it will increase (more, multiplicative) the damage of the applied ailments as well. Am I right?
Ah yes Global modifiers are different. Those just grant you an increased damage stat as a buff to the character, rather than modify the skill’s damage, like a passive node or an item does.
To the ailment question. Correct, ailments inflicted by that skill gain benefits of such nodes.
Those nodes will say ‘You deal…’ or ‘You gain…’ rather than ‘X skill deals more damage’
1 Like
This sentence just got me confused even more 
Example Rive:
- Trampling Ahuizotl: “Rive deals more damage (multiplicative …)”
This will affect the damage of the applied ailments - Overwheml: "Third deal significantly more HIT damage […]) is purely for the damage of the skill but has no effect on the afflicted ailments? Same as Savagery and Opportunist?
Got confused because nine of them says “You deal…” or “You gain…”
The Warpath node Draining Aussault says “you deal” and is a global more multplier for all damage which is calculated during spinning.
Still learning about all the damage calculations and looking for ways to optimize. Sorry about asking that many questions and abusing this thread… At least it is still somehow related.
1 Like
Indeed, ailments don’t hit, so won’t be affected by this node. However we have started to write these descriptions slightly different on newer skills, so those should be less confusing. They should say “Rive hits deal more damage”, referring to the act of hitting with Rive.
And in some cases those are really old nodes and haven’t been updated.
This does indeed mean that YOU, the character deal more damage while spinning. So so if you have a procced melee ability that triggers while you are spinning, it will deal more damage too. Though we might change this one as it can be a bit confusing.
attack speed is always multiplicative with other modifiers (but not with itself), like increased damage is multplicative with crit damage. That goes without saying.
Or did you want to say something else?
He meant that attack speed nodes themselves are usually not multiplicative with other attack speed modifiers you have on gear etc.
The only attack speed that is multiplicative is the base weapon implicit.
2 Likes
This topic was automatically closed 60 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.