At what point does Crit mult becomes much more relevant than increased damage stats ?
As a general rule most builds & players goes for crit mult affix any time its possible.
And I know the more increased damage you already have the result of adding more % is diminishing. And given that we have multiple sources of increased damage, going for crit mult is an effective way to gain more damage.
But doing a quick math here,
lets say my char have 500% increased damage (from all sources) and base damage of 100.
And it has standard 200% crit multp. So my normal hit has 600 damage and my critical hit has 1200 damage.
If I have perfect tier 5 crit mult from weapon, its more 44% crit mult.
So it would be 600 damage * 244% = 1464 damage for crit hit, right ?
but If I go to spell damage, perfect tier 5 weapon affix, it would be 105% more damage, so now we have 605% increased damage, meaning normal hit = 705 damage and critical hit = 1410 damage
We could say that when a player has already around 500% increased damage its the point where its better to get crit mult instead of increased damage ?
The numbers you presented are leaving out one very important Stat. Your crit chance. Crit multi is less valuable the lower your crit chance is.
You should not really bother with crit multi until you have enough %Inc damage and crit chance
I personally always aim for 600-800% Inc. damage for my main dmg type.
Crit Multiplier is indeed very much taken on every slot possible, once you have the base damage and crit chance.
Crit Multi is just generally speaking a much rarer stat that has less sources.
yep, I should have mentioned considering its an ideal situation where we always have critical hit. Its another huge factor we have to balance, getting increased critical chance.
but Im wondering if Im doing the math correctly, comparing just these 2 , crit mult vs increased damage
Also, to muddle things up, your math isnāt correct, though itās a very common mistake to make. If you have 500% increased damage, for 100 base damage, you actually deal 600 with your normal hit.
Look at it this way:
With 0% increased damage you just deal your normal hit of 100.
With 100% inc damage you deal x2 for 200.
200% inc deals x3 for 300, etc
So 500% is actually x6.
For the crit mult, thatās another story. Depends on how it was implemented. If it was implemented so that when you crit you deal 200% OF your base dmg (after increases) then itās x2, but if when you crit you deal 200% MORE base dmg than itās x3.
It should reasonably easy to test and someone probably already did and knows the answer.
everything that gives More Damage (instead of increased % damage) this damage is applied after the calculation damage * increased damage * crit multp ? (considering a succesfull critical hit)
Your actual formula to calculate increases would be:
-For increased damage: new increased damage multiplier/total increased damage multiplier. With your example it would be 1.05/6=0.175. So compared to your previous damage it would increase by 17.5%
-For crit multi (Iām going to assume the more common option in games that 200% equals x3): (new crit mult/total crit mult) * crit chance. With your example it would be (0.44/3)*crit chance, so 0.14(6)*crit chance. With a 100% crit chance it would be a 14.(6)% increase, so lower than the first option.
-If crit multi 200% equal x2 it would be 0.22 * crit chance, meaning youād get better damage increase from 80% chance upwards.
That would depend on how the devs applied it. The most common formula in games is:
(total sources of flat damage)(increased damage)(crit multi)
Using the analogy that became very common with D4: they usually use ābucketsā. You have the flat damage bucket, the increased damage bucket and the crit bucket. All sources of damage go inside one of the buckets. Each bucket adds all the bonuses inside of it. Then each bucket multiplies with each other.
reading all things again, now I become curious about this, could anyone tell me what formula Last epoch follows ?
I have to review all my personal calculations
forgetting all the other stats, and considering a succesfull critical hit.
my normal hit is 100 flat damage (base damage). my critical hit would be 300 flat damage ?? (considering the standard base critical strike multiplier, 200%).
As I said, it shouldnāt be hard to test and probably someone already did. Just go to the dummies in the arena and hit them until you get crits and compare the increase with your crit multi. Once you get a few going it should be easy to find out if itās x2 or x3, unless you have a very high multiplier, in which case the increase would be less noticeable (for example between x5 and x6) due to the randomness of hits.
So that means that 44% to crit multiplier is actually the second crit calculation I did. So a T5 crit (using those numbers) is better than a T5 inc damage if you have at least 80% crit chance.
Well, in normal cases, yes. But there are games (usually idle or incremental games) that use more complicated formulas. A simple example would be some global multiplier, like āincreased total damageā that would apply after the rest of the damage is calculated. I donāt think LE has one, but in that case it would be something like (flatincreasedcrit)*total, and in that case the order would matter.
Ok, you give me an example of one of those games & weāll see if it breaks one of the fundamental principles of maths. 'Cause Iām no mathematician, but Iād be shocked if the order of ā(flat x increased x crit) x totalā mattered.
What I meant is that in LE, right now, you can do flatinccrit or critflatinc, etc and theyāre all the same. If you use a total you can do (flatinccrit)total, but you canāt do flattotalcritinc. Thatās all I meant. When you introduce these types of multipliers, you first need to calculate one part before you can move on to the next.
Itās still basic math, but you canāt ignore the order in which you calculate things anymore.
Nope, unless Iām completely misunderstanding what youāre saying, the order in which you do the multiplications does not matter, you still get the same result.
(flat x increased x crit) x total
Is the same as
(flat x increased x crit x total)
Is the same as
flat x (increased x crit) x total
And any other order. Try the maths yourself. For example, if you had 100 flat, 25% increased, x2 crit multi & 20% āincreased total damageā, youāll get an outcome of 300.
Your āincreased total damageā sounds like what we would call a more modifier in LE/PoE (at least, if thereās only 1 of them, it could be handled differently if itās a single stat that is just summed up then applied rather than every single instance applied separately like more modifiers are in LE/PoE).
Yeah, Iām not explaining myself correctly on what I mean. Not sure if itās the english or math part or both that Iām not putting across. Probably both, but Iām tired and english is second language, even though I usually have no issues with it.
I meant something which Iām forgetting how to represent in math but which be something like:
-Every source of damage gets the bonus. So what I meant, incorrectly, from:
(flat x inc x crit) x total would translate into (flat x total) x (inc x total) x (crit x total)
Looking at what I first wrote, itās obvious now that itās the same. But what I meant is what I corrected above. Some games, mostly idles/incrementals, use stuff like that to get over walls.
EDIT: replaced the asterisks with x so the forum doesnāt format things.
Yeah, itās fine, I had a work Christmas party last night and am noteably slower this afternoon. I also couldnāt do this in a foreign language.
What youāve described is simply another modifier pool (like how speed is also a separate modifier pool so is multiplicative to everything else, just like total increased damage, crit multi, separate more modifiers, etc).
