Improvement Suggestions

Feedback and Suggestions
1

I have been playing this game now for a good while and there are quite a few annoying things I am afraid to say that do spoil my enjoyment of the game, in fact it has put me in a position to not want to buy the Epoch Ultimate Edition Upgrade, which I was originally at the time concidering of buying that upgrade. But with the issues that I am currently having with this game. I am sorry to report that I have been completely put off from wanting to buy the upgrade.

The following issues and suggested improvements are as follows:

1: Certain Areas of the game where the map gets uncovered, but when I teleport back to the nearest town/camp then return, any part of the map I have uncovered has become ghosted again, same thing occurs when I exit the game and come back to that area the next time I start the game, the map that I took all the time and effort of uncovering, is ghosted again. This is highly annoying in my personal oppinion and I hope that I am not the only one that has a problem with this. My suggestion here is to prevent the map once uncoverd, from going back to being half filled/ghosted/unlocked again.
2: Respawning In The Game. Another annoying fact that when a character dies, where they respwan from is not anywhere near the last locationof whith they get killed at. Can’t this be changed please? My Suggestion to improve the Respawn Point is to be respawned just a few feet away from where the character got killed, so when they return, they do not have far to go and they have at least some room to get out of the way, especially if they get crowded upon respawning.
3: Mini Bosses and Main Bosses. While I understand that it is the sole design for when Mini Bosses or Main Bosses are killed, if one teleports or goes back to an area where they killed a Mini Boss or a Main Boss, that they are alive again, this too is or for me at least has become most annoying.
If I get a full inventory, even with a loot filter in place, I am still getting full and if I have defeated a Mini Boss or a Main Boss and I have to go back to Town/Camp to sell all of my stuff, then come back, only to have to fight them again. Once is okay, but more than this, which has happned to me so far, is not only annoying, it is damn right unfair. My suggestion to this problem, is to do away with the Mini Bosses and Main Bosses coming back to life again, altogether.
4: Inventory Capacity. This needs to be increased please, because of said problems unless those get solved
5: Teleportation. I am not at all happy with the fact that with each time I teleport from an area and get back to town then exit the game. That, the teleporter that I had summoned previously is no longer there and that I have to go to the last known Way Point/Travel Point on the map, but that is never anywhere near the last position my chracter was at when last teleported. This problem is also annoying and I suerly can’t be the only one that has a problem with this. I suggest leaving the teleporter still active please, after existing the game and being still active upon reurning back to the game, if at all possible to help with the game play as well as making it easier for players to be able to get back to their last known location not only quicker, but easier too.

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The persistent zone issue is an old issue that they would like to fix eventually but haven’t been able to, so far. However, I don’t think it’s been high on the priority because you’re not supposed to be going back to sell items. They have purposefully made it so that selling items doesn’t give you much gold.

In fact, you get a lot less gold from going back and selling stuff than simply keep playing and killing monsters and picking up less stuff.
I never sell anything, not even uniques. If I don’t want to use them, I just leave them on the floor. The gold you get from these sales is completely meaningless.

Almost all your issues seems to come from this.

I have a feeling that they won’t be changing them until procedurally generated areas have been established (which they’ll introduce in Season 2 for some of the content) and they can then replace the current static ones for them.

As for respawning, Mike said there will be changes regarding this for Season 2, at least regarding bosses, making it much easier to get back to the fight.

2 Likes
3

That would be great.
I still want to respawn at the beginning of dungeon instead of in town when dying in dungeon. Maybe one day…

3 Likes
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Apohawk, thank you for the response, it is good to know what they are thinking of changing the Respawn Point of the game. I do hope that they will make other changes too.

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DJSamhein. Wait! They have deliberately made it so that selling items do not give much gold? Sorry, not meaning to be mean or rude, sincere not. That seems rather a dumb idea, that would make both teleporting and selling things rather very pointless. This is by far the worst idea imaginable. That as a game macanic does not hold up well and I can’t see how they could make the game work based on what you have just.

If they say it works, I honestly do not see how personally. If selling and teleporting in the game is as pointless as it seems to be, then those two things do not make the game worth playing. That makes perfect sense to me at least, though by no means am I calling the devs of this game dumb, but they kind of have gone and shot themselves in the foot on that one. I see no point in not piccking up items in the game. I mean the whole point of item drops is to sell off what you do not want and keep anything that you do want and if you remove the ability to teleport, then that would just leave the Way Points as means of travel, considering they are placed so far apart, that, there is not going to work. Sorry to be pointing such an obvious point of logic here, it just makes sense of having a better way of getting to and from a place better, if the use of the teleport is not what the devs want players to use too much, then they should not have included it in the game, but that would have made the game difficult.

The whole game sorry to say, based on what you have said. If teleporting and selling items seems to be of no actual real point of the game. Then it is really not much of a game at all and I am not being harsh. I at least hope not, I call it how I see it and I am being completely honest here and trying very hard not to say anything out of order etc. You honestly can’t have a game if selling items and teleporting in the game seems to be of little to no real use, it’s not rocket science.

6

Yes.

That is the point of it. They want you to keep playing and killing monsters, not having to stop every few minutes to go back and sell stuff.

You get a lot more gold from the gold monsters drop, so you spend more time actually playing the game rather than going stopping to play, get a loading screen, sell stuff, another loading screen, go back to fighting.

That’s kind of extreme. I personally always felt that having to stop playing to go back and sell your inventory is annoying as hell. Many players do. I much prefer in LE where I just keep playing and only pick up the stuff that is worth anything.

It’s no different from playing D2 or PoE, where you only pick up the useful stuff and for the same reason: the currency you get from selling them at a vendor is meaningless.

Huh? The ability to open a town portal is always there, it’s never removed. I don’t understand your point here.

2 Likes
7

The logic of it is that going back to town for gold is hindering you from playing the actual game.

They want you in maps/dungeons as much as possible, and they provide a loot filter specifically so that you can pre-determine useful items to you and focus on actual gameplay while playing.

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And that’s the exact idea behind it.

Uniques are 500 gold, you’ll find regular drops commonly between 50-250 gold from enemies. Monolith completion usually provides 1,5k to 5k gold drops. A gold shrine is between 20-50k gold, even early on. Same with monolith gold rewards, similar to a gold shrine.

That alone causes item value to be non-existent, also Gold itself has outside of MG basically no usage. The only reasons are Stash Tabs (which have gotten very cheap and without hoarding barely needed) as well as Lightless Arbor reward scaling at the end… which is solely viable to use for CoF characters and the respective gold gets farmed up on the side for it.

The reason for it is that item acquisition is focused on the drops directly, not from vendors (outside of extremely early on) and hence there’s basically no reason to focus on acquiring it in the long-term.
The only viable thing are Runes of Shattering, but even those aren’t required in any meaningful amount as long as the focus is solely on the acquisition of shards for personal usage, in that case Runes of Removal are superior since they provide all available shards rather then a fraction. Shatterings are basically only useful when a item reaches 0 FP or you got no removals leftover but nonetheless want to acquire a specific rare shard from an item. Properly setting up the lootfilter accordingly is important hence.

No live-service ARPG with any kind of longevity (hence neither D3 nor D4 included) have the ability to get any reliable value from item drops. In Path of Exile dropped items are generally worthless, unless you use them as a base or they actually drop with decent affixes on them. Selling them to a vendor provides nigh nothing, only early on in specific situations it has value.
Torchlight Infinite provides the same. Selling of items is nearly useless, the currency you get awarded is for the lowest tier crafts and provided more then plenty, making it useless to pick up items for their vendor value.
And Last Epoch also follows this line of thought. Outside of early game aspects items have no value at all besides the direct use for a character.

Mostly as means of picking up where you left off between game sessions. Outside of that the waypoints have no meaning.
In the later acts there’s a few instances where it makes backtracking less, which is decent design, but before that they’re nothing else then simple checkpoints for progression, needless to be ever used.

Then the whole genre is generally not for you. In a game where you have a high repetition of content you’ll run very fast into inflation issues with your currency. That’s why after D2 and D3 Gold was mostly phased out of existence before making a sort of comeback since a while… with severe changes to how it’s handled nowadays. The abundance of gold caused severe progression issues given that itemization was in D2 based on gambling to a large degree, especially with low level characters as their chance was improved for substantial outcomes. This caused characters not to tackle the hardest content available but instead the most gold-profitable content, removing the connection between difficulty and reward. A downside of the design of D2 back in those days. They didn’t know better yet.

Blizzard tried to reinstate Gold in a similar manner in D3 and it caused itemization progression to be severely hampered there as well. In comparison Path of Exile which was developed without Gold didn’t have those issues, their economy is based on usable crafting items which also act as the currency. Since the currency has a natural sink this way it was deemed superior. Torchlight Infinite followed it for good reasons… and Last Epoch actually has the exact same issues as D2 and D3 had related to gold. It’s either worthless since you can’t do anything with it (high level D2 character) or you have an extreme need for it (As a Merchant Guild character) where it goes so far as actively breaking the limits of their currently implemented system by demanding amounts which are at the limit of their database values.

You can, it works fantastic and that has been proven over the course of more then a decade by now.

You’re vastly in the past with your comments.

1 Like
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DJSamhein. I understand the need for palyers to remain active in game play by killing enemies and if they really do not want people having to go back so much, like I said, a larger capacity inventory would help. I know that having a specific loot filter helps. Trust me, I have been as specific as possible with my loot filter and over time I will learn how to refine that even more. That still leaves a lot of other stuff being dropped and the gold is not meaningless, you need that for at least either buying Shards of Shattering, when needed, unless one has collected a sufficiant enough of them to not need to buy them. Then there are the price for the stash tabs, the more they get filled up the more space one is going to need and the higher the amount is for each stash tab, so enough gold is needed for that. I have a lot of stash tabs already and I have seen a few videos on YouTube where the players literally have massive amounts of stash tabs, it’s like real crazy. I can’t imagine how they can possibly keep track of what they have in each stash tab. I am trying to limit my amount of stash tabs, as best as possible, so I don’t end up getting a heache when trying to sort them out later on in the game. Personally I feel that a game should be balanced between fighting and selling items, as well as maintaining a good amount of loot to not only pick up, but as mentioned, for players but to also be able choose what they do and do not want to see being dropped. Sacred 2 is I feel a good example of not needing to go back too often to sell stuff, as the carrying capacity was really decent and when having to go back and sell stuff, it never ruined the feel of the game. One could choose to a degree of what kind of drops to have in the game, nothing like this game of course. But teleporting via the save monliths was never a hinderance etc. In fact, I wish someone would have invented a teleport mecanich for Sacred 2, because once the carrying capicity had maxed out, the only way to go back to a merchant was by the saved monolith system, but then you could not go directly back to where you had been.

Sorry, I have never played D2 or PoE. I am quite selective to when it comes to role playing games in general. But that is just me personally. If selling items to a vendor is useless, what is the point of having them in the game, if I may ask? It seems a bit odd to have vendors in the game if they serve no real purpose. Sorry, my bad, I was trying to say about the devs not wanting players having to teleport so much. I was trying to say if they had removed the ability to teleport, that would only leave the Way Points as the only means of travel, like the save monoliths in Sacred 2 were the only means of travel from one town to the next, apart from going there on foot or on a mount. I do apologise for any misunderstanding.

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What I said was that the amount of gold you make from selling items is meaningless compared to the amount of gold you make just from killing monsters. In the time you’ve wasted picking up stuff, portaling to town, selling your inventory and portaling back, you would have already made more gold just by not picking that stuff up and continuing to kill monsters.

By the time you reach monos you’ll be making way more money from a single echo than you could ever make by selling 10 full inventories. And you’ll have way more than enough for shaterings (of which you’ll also soon have way more than you need. I personally have over 1k of them on my account, mostly because you soon stop shatering everything and only shatter very rare affixes).

So what we are saying isn’t that you don’t need gold. It’s that you make more gold by just playing the game (killing monsters) than you make by selling stuff. And that way you don’t need to stop playing to go back and sell stuff. You can keep on playing while still making gold.

Gold is balanced around the drops, not selling (unless you’re in MG, but even then it’s only from selling in the bazaar, not to vendors).

1 Like
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To put it into perspective: My inventory during the campaign doesn’t fill up. At Act 1 I pick up a few things, at Act 2 still a few… then it becomes very little very fast.

In Monoliths I’m one of the people which picks up too much still, my inventory fills up every 4-5 monoliths. Actually at my stage I rather should only pick 1 item at best per monolith, if even, likely less.

It doesn’t help… it’s mandatory.
As for how specific your filter is: I think not specific enough given you need to return to town.

Shatterings are only useful during the early acts and only for your first character. If you still buy shattering after Act 5 then you’re shattering too much. They loose all value beyond that point as you find enough shards through the chests and rare enemies along the way to have a few of the common ones available.

Stash tabs have been no issue before the price and scaling reduction. They got 50% reduced a while ago for some odd nonsensical reason.

You only need items for your own character and uniques for leveling a second one. Everything else can be crafted with white basic items for the campaign. And beyond you’re swamped with shatterings, removals and so many decent items you’re drowning in em.

If you need more then 5 tabs then you’re hoarding. I’m a hoarder, I use 70… but… I’m a hoarder.

They are distinctively sorted, that’s how people keep track. 1 for uniques to throw into the Nemesis mechanic. 1 for Keys, 1 for the next build you’re making, 1 for Temporal Sanctum crafts, 1 to dump stuff inside for the moment. More isn’t needed. Anything beyond is generally useless hoarding. Once more… I’m a hoarder, I know what I speak about there.

Modern ARPGs push you to decide on a build and go as far as possible. Not switch between builds every half hour. That’s why you don’t see mechanics aligning with allowing to switch so often. To get more builds you either do that when you feel like you’re reaching your limit… or by making a second character and trying something else.

Doing otherwise has shown to cause issues by reducing player engagement and hence making them leave earlier. That’s knowledge built up over the decades since Sacred 2 was released.
Nowadays games simply remove the need to go back to sell mostly, so you don’t need to stop engaging directly with the content for often extended amounts of time.

Reducing the RNG issue by providing alternative methods for the worst-case scenario.
They are a method of speeding up early game and solving issues for a lack of specific drops as they provide a variety of base items at least, ones which become very very quickly sub-par though rather then useful.

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Airowind, thank yuo for yuor feed back, much appreciated. I would not call going back to town for gold/selling off items a hinderence, it is if having to go back there too often, like I pointed out to DJSamhein, in Sacred 2 Gold, you could carry up a really good decent amount of items in your inventory, I mean the PS3 and XBOX versions, I should have pointed that out. I know it’s different for PC, but maybe there could be a way to address that issue. Anyway in the PS3 version, you could carry roughly about up a maximum of 180 items. I do feel that inventory capacity for most PC role playing games have a minimum carrying capacity. Now maybe there is a good reason for this. That said, it would be a real shame for game developers not to maybe improve on such a problem and maybe in these modern day games, there maybe no need to do so. My idea is not going to suit the vast majority of interests out there. I am rather oldfashioned in terms of Role Playing games and I really like and love the traditional aspects of the old RPG’s and sure, there is room to bring them up to date for the modern day, but without having to loose however the integrity of that iconic tradition, with the aim of keeping players still on the maps and in dungeons as much as possible. I feel a good comproimise of both modern and old can be reached for all parties, but that is just me personally

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I am not familiar with Sacred 2, so I’ll try this the other way around:

As DJSamhein has mentioned, vendoring gear is not the best way to make gold. The design intent (also mentioned by Mike on dev streams iirc) is that they would rather increase the gold drop than force you to pick up an item and go to the vendor with it.

The design of the loot system is so that you would only pick up items you would find a use for (either by using it, shattering it for affix shards or for future characters in a shared stash)
Personally, I pick up a lot of items as well, but I don’t bother with magic or rare items that aren’t for my build and recently, I don’t even pick up exalted items with a single T6 anymore.

So my question to you is: If gold is not relevant, would you still pick up so many items. And if so, why?

Edit: I also don’t know if you’ve finished the campaign or not. In the Monolith endgame system, you have easy access to your stash (and a vendor!) after each map, although you reset the map when teleporting out. As long as you filter enough that you don’t pick up more than a full inventory every few minutes of gameplay, you can then dump it in your stash or sell it as you like.

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Kulze, thank you for the feed back. Much appreciated. I am oldfashioned when it comes to Role Playing, and I have nothing against modern games either. I actually thought and felt that the use of Gold in Sacred 2 was well done and gaining high amounts of gold never hindered game play at all. I am most sincerely and truly sorry to learn that the gold system side of things harmed a lot of games. I feel that the use of it in Role Playing games in general needs to be fairly well blanced and not become the over all focus of the main game play at hand. I agree, if a game become moer about obtaining moer gold than anythign else, that is not a good game.

I feel and this is just me personally that phasing out the need for a gold ssytem in these modern day games is a really sad thing. I am not objecting for the use of something in a game other than gold, so long as that actually works in a game. I just feel that the gold mecanic should not be phased out entirely. As I have mentioned to Airowird, that the RPG’s of old have a long lasting tadition and yes we are in modern times and thigns of the past may not work now, but there is nothing to say that somethign of the old, if done right can’t work in this modern day and age.

It might not be, parden the term here. Everyone’s cup of tea. I understand all too well that soem peopel like other things to other people, that is why there should be games enoough to cater for everyones needs, wants/likes, etc. One can’t possibly please everybody. Anything of the past can work with the modern times, it just needs carelful thinking, as well as implimentation and a chance for that to work and work well on it’s own merits and not to be compared to whatever else is popular at the time. Things can and often do fall out of being pupular. Sorry to say, I completely disagree with your assumption that this game is not for me. Yes, cerftain aspects of this game does not please me. But that does not stop or pervent me from playing it. I also have high praise for this game, it beats Sacred 2 hands down in terms of gaming quality, this game is vastily superior in every way than Sacred 2.

I am sure that there are going to be games that aree not for me, but only I can and will dertermine that and I ask you kindly not to say that this game is not for me. Yes I do have oppions about this game, but that’s all they are and everyone is entitled to disagree with those oppinions if they wish to do so. I am not here to make anyone angry or upset etc.

I value being able to fight lots of enemies with the rest of them, as the saying goes. I actually want to be able to go back to merchants, see what they have, even if they don’t have anything that I need. But I do value the purpose and the point of their being there, again this is just me on a personal level and maybe one day there will be no merchants at all in future Role Playing Games and I am sure that what works now and has done for moer than a decade will be just as easily phased out, much like a lot of things of the past have been phased out. But it is a real shame that such things should happen at all. The past and things of the past in gneral are very important, or at least they should be, because without the past, we would not have a present or a future.

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Airowird. Thank you again for the lovely feedback. Much appreciated. I do see what the dev’s of this game are tryign to do and yes, I am no expert when it comes to game design etc. I would say that it must be quite the balancing act to make the game work the way that it does so and yes, it has been mentioned that other games do things the same way too.

It is okay not to be familiar with Sacred 2, but you can easily search for it, if you wish to do so. If not, that is okay. The game balanced out well enough drop items, yellow, blue and white, as best as I am able to remember, I no longer play the game now. It stopped being fun to play etc. Anyway the game gives players a chocie of what gets dropped to a litmited dagree, but it had a gold macanic too that worked really very well for it’s time.
I have been playing this game now for just a little over a week now, so I can’t say what item I would want or need, but then again who des know what they are ever going to need in a role playing game, your choice of weapon is going to change over time, mine did several times in Sacred 2, as the vendors in the game pretty much sold items that were better than what was dropped, but some times what got dropped were better than what the vendor’s were selling. It was a pretty good balance between both the drops and what the vendors were selling, but that is just me personally and not everyone is going to view the game in the same way.

If gold was not relevent in a game, if I was playing such a game. If there are itmes to be collected in that game I would collect them, because that is simply the intent and purpose of the game really. So that is my reason as to why I would pick up so many items, but would where possible if there is an option for it and that is to dispose of items that I no longer need. Though not knowing what you might or might not want in a game is not always easy, as sometimes, some games can throw you a real curve ball and give you an enemy of which you needed, say a weapon you just got rid of, in order to kill that enemy with. Or just a weapon that worked really well but was given up for something you might have thought worked better but in the end it does not, that sort of thing.

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Reading the Sacred 2 wiki doesn’t give me the same info as playing it though, and I checked, there are currently 0 people streaming Sacred 2 on Twitch.

What I can see from the wikis on the game is that there is a lot of upgrading through the blacksmith, some sort of rune vendor for class-restricted items etc. So it seems you need item drops to turn into gold either for vendor items or just to craft. I don’t know if that’s the effective gameplay loop there or not.

In Last Epoch, all your gear comes directly from drops, vendors are only there for backup in campaign, or in case of the gambler: also to feed Rune of Ascendance tries.
I’ld also like to point out that any magic or rare item (blue/yellow) is completely reproducible through crafting. Exalted affixes are drop-only, but you can still craft on the rest of the item very cheaply.

As for weapons & swapping based on situation: Last Epoch is not that kind of game.
Weapons are essentially stat-sticks and you don’t swap for specific situations.
Usually, you pick a set of skills to build around, then add your passive nodes, then fill in the defensive gaps and push the damage through gear.

The exception here is Uniques. These items are … well, unique in what stats they bring to that slot and you can definitely collect those, as some bring about new build types.

For example: here is what my stash tabs look like: https://imgur.com/iKjDjD4
Plenty of unique copies, I currently have 73 stash tabs on Legacy (plus some remove-only from older seasons) and a new tab costs me 320k while I have 1.4mil gold.
The inventory is roughly what I pick up in items each echo run, after which I have access to a stash again: Exalts, Uniques/Sets, Idols. That’s it, as the rest is - essentially - useless.

The only ARPG in recent history I know where picking everything up is intended is Warhammer: Inquisitor - Martyr, where you automatically pick up everything, but you also have bulk vendor/shatter buttons to clear your bags. It’s essentially the way to get either gold or crafting mats in that game.

Both there and in LE though, I tend to have enough inventory space to do 3-4 map runs before my bags are full. I find that to be a good balance, as it’s usually about 10-20 minutes of game time, take 5min to craft, maybe get a drink, then repeat.

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Airowird, what a totally awesome guy you are and I mean that sincerely. No, I am not tryingto chat you up or butter you up. It’s a sincere compliment. Thanks for your reply. Sacred Wiki will not tell you much about the game play, it’s information at best is generic and I am not at all sure if Sacred 2 is available on Twitch. The game is multi platform, as far as I know of, for all console types, are nearly most of them and it’s available on steam and GOG.com in it’s Gold Expansion Pack form: Sacred 2 Gold.

Yes, there are some class-restricted items for Sacred 2, like two handed axes for the Shadow Warrior Only and The Blow Pipes for the Dryad only. T-Energy Pistols for the Temple Guardian, High Elf, the Inquisitor and the Seraphim only. Energy Staffs are for The Inquisitor, The Shadow Warrior and the Seraphim only. The Seraphim, the Inquistor and the Dryad can dual weild, but not the Temple Guardian or the High Elf. Other than what I have mentioned other weapons can be used by each of the other classes.
There is a Rune Master, a Blacksmith and a Merchant/Vendor, the Blacksmith is for forging items with things like weapons and armour, using rings, amulets, runes or items to fire, ice and posion.

I hope all of that helps? Yellow items are higher than blue, blue items are higher than white, but don’t quote me on that, it’s as best as I am able to remember on that. The highest level any character can reach in Sacred 2 is level 200. Anyway, enough about Sacred 2. That is not what this forum is for or about. But I hoped I gave you enough info about Sacred 2.

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No it didn’t, apart from MF reducing the drop chances of the lower quality items.

You mean the damage taken from gold effect? Yeah, it was kinda nice, but gold in Sacred 1 & 2 was almost entirely poinless. Unless the community mod added something.

Yes, since they used what D2 established.