But PoE’s layout aren’t absolutely fixed in the campaign. Yes, there are rough guidelines to the overall layout, but it is not identical on each playthrough.
I strongly disagree. Grim Dawn is a pretty bad offender in the monotonous category because of the fixed layout. PoE does it much better.
While having an incentive to visit different areas due to different loot is a good idea in many regards, it is not enough of a redeeming quality to keep me engaged for long.
EHG should learn from the experiences of the past. In this case, listen to Chris Wilson. GGG made the experience during the development of their game, observing and listening to their players.
Of course, this is subjective, so different people will feel differently. PoE had the best longevity for me, even in their most monotonous iteration of mapping and running act 3 merciless docs.
That’s why I have played probably more hours in PoE than all other ARPGs combined, even though most of this was before 3.0.
PoE does the same thing as D2 did: many layouts are absolutely fixed and have the exact same layout and exits, others are procedurally created with a base layout.
Mh… what campaign maps do have a 100% fixed layout in PoE?
Exit placements in the general directions, yes. Relative positions of waypoints, yes. Some maps in the campaign feel more randomized than others. Some might be the same five variants over and over again.
But each room, nook, and cranny in the same place for every run? Perhaps this was ramped up in acts 5-10. It would explain why I don’t like them as much in many cases.
Tidal island in act 1.
The ledge in act 1.
Southern Forest in in act 2.
The crossroads in act 2.
Western forest in act 2.
City of Sarn in act 3.
Sewers in act 3.
Imperial gardens in act 3.
Etc, etc, etc.
Make the layout adjust itself… not the enemies though, to keep specifics the same and allow for a variety of builds.
Sure, EHG wants the ‘one build does all’ premise, but that one’s a guaranteed fail long-term anyway, it removes any chance of variety in the first place.
But even if they keep it then a variable layout is fine, but the distinct variety of farming places would already go a long long way.
GGG had that with the Atlas-bases formerly before their content became so much that it was dropped. Picking one quarter of their Atlas to get 2 specific bases only dropping there, each quarter having another set. The same can be done with the timelines and would provide a better variety since people can actively farm for specific drops to a degree hence.
None, but there’s a variety of fixed Atlas-maps by now.
Some are really… really close though to being ‘the same’, so let’s say they are.
No, many are the exact same layout all the time. For example, the sewers in act 3 are not only the exact same layout, but the busts (or whatever you have to collect for the side quest) are always in the exact same spot.
And there are several examples of this. I know because I did campaign hundreds of times, since I was the unofficial rusher in our clan, because I actually enjoy the campaign.
Exactly, I think this sums it up perfectly why I called it almost unfair.
I think it would be unfair to expect LE 1.2+3 update to fill this void but it would be fair to hope that it adds maybe one new endgame system or interesting improvements to the current one.
I agree with this, I also don’t like Corruption due to its open ended nature and I think a ceiling like say T16 maps (haven’t played PoE since Ultimatum) would be better.
Timelines do have some enemy variety like I think Diamond matrons don’t spawn in some of them same with the Red Blue Crystals and Wengari have more chance in others. Also the difference Unique reward nodes. But I kinda agree that the difference is not enough for Timelines to feel unique.
Grim dawn should see some major differences in this with the new expansion and addition of the new difficulty.
I will agree that in the current game, farming campaign does get a bit monotonous and the main endgame(for me) is typically SR and Crucible with a lot of build crafting and swapping due to its awesome build variety.
Tidal island in act 1 - probably true, very small sidemap.
The ledge in act 1 - definitely wrong. Endless ledge runs for days, baby.
Southern Forest in in act 2 - wrong.
The crossroads in act 2. - very similar, but not the same.
Western forest in act 2 - no, there is variance on where Alira or the Spiders are located.
City of Sarn in act 3 - yes, i think so. Very short map, though, so not much room for variance.
Sewers in act 3 - they weren’t in the past, maybe they are now.
Imperial gardens in act 3 - could be.
Alright, I will just fire up PoE, clear maps, make screenshots, and see how similar they really are.
To be fair, I haven’t played PoE in over 2 years, so some of them I don’t remember exactly anymore, but I do know that there are plenty that are exact copies with the exits in the same places and even quest items in the same places.
As I said, it’s been a while since I last played, so some might just be similar. But there are several zones that are the exact layout. Like I said, sewers in act 3 is one which I’m pretty sure of, harbour bridge and high gardens in act 8, chamber of innocence in act 5, etc.
Because the burden of proof fell on me, I went and tried it out. Harbour Bridge in act 8 is always the exact same layout, including the small obstacles.
But I will admit that most of the maps I assumed were 100% fixed are only about 95% fixed. They don’t change in a relevant way for the discussion, since they don’t contribute to it feeling fresh and different, since the path and objectives are all still in the same place and the changes are minimal, mostly consisting of small obstacles along the way like pillars, but they do indeed have small variations.
I disagree with points 2 thru 7. Point #1 is valid, but “repetitive” does not equal “bad” or “not fun” I think repetitive is fine when you enjoy what you’re doing.
I’m not even going to read the OP’s suggestions though, because they are written in ALL CAPS. But the titles of the suggestions like “Connect timelines and launch them from a central hub” is laughable, because that’s already how the monoliths were designed! Is this a troll post? Probably …
“Add Incremental mini-boss encounters to build towards …” Also already in the game right now lol. That’s how monos work already.
Why not? I’m sure you’ve said that it’s totally reasonable to compare a game with less than 1 year of “release” to a game with almost 11 years of “post-launch” (ie 1.0) content development…
That said, I don’t have a problem with people changing their minds or just arguing the other side for a change…
How do you envisage the gameplay being unique? Would you like mono A to play like an aRPG, mono B to play like an FPS, mono C to play like a TBS, mono D like a flightsim, etc?
That wasn’t what I was referring to. It might just be a misunderstanding. I was referring to having enough endgame systems that you could manipulate (within the system itself, like Harvest, Heist, etc.) so that you could choose what you wanted to focus on.
Because PoE’s end-game is majorly based around the sheer quantity of content, not to make small amounts of content work as efficiently as possible, which Grim Dawn does a far better job at.
Those directions are easier to introduce and within a far far shorter timeframe then what PoE does, and LE won’t catch up to GGG’s work in the next 5-10 years at least in the pace they’re going.
