That pretty sums it up. I want to qualify that me wanting MP to be fun and rewarding does not mean it should be at the expense of single players. How EHG will achieve that… I leave it to them 
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Agree with this.
I can’t help but think that MP has a kind of “same old, same old” feel to it - i.e. “just scale things up and handle OP char combos.” I can’t help but wonder if somehow there would be a way for a future game (not LE because they are doing same-old,same-old per shared videos) to think of a whole different way for MP to work. Ideas like “packs of monsters each get a mini-boss based on # of players”, or “portals appear randomly each map with a frequency based on # of players and themed monsters pop out”. i.e. literal new mechanics that don’t exist in single player at all. Like, literally, MP-only content but like, not “gated” content (meaning, not a “Dungeon” which only MP can go into, nothing like that).
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Sadly even just stuff like this is a fairly important factor.
Currently the plans as far as I have heard from the devs is instanced loot. Meaning each rare monster drops a rare item as per the tips screen. So if a MP party gets more rare monsters, they get more rare items. Which means that have a slight advantage over single player. Unless those “extra” enemies dont drop loot, then the MP players are upset they have to fight extra challenge for the same loot.
I think you cant get too crazy. Unique MP only gimmicks essentially change a gameplay experience. So you can argue you are not getting full access to the experience unless you play MP.
As much as we can call that silly to complain about, thats just the modern gaming era. You are mostly signing up for an experience, and people dont want to miss that experience just because of how they play. its why some games even have “Cinematic” modes that are really easy but still provide you the experience.
If the game was programmed (from the start) to calculate loot based on the “encounter” (pack, boss, whatever) and not each, specific mob (as a % chance), then scaling up the pack to match the power of 2,3,4,etc. players has no effect on loot. Even the added “portal” idea, or “mini-boss” idea doesn’t affect the loot. It’s just more fun, and of course, more challenging because its more than 1 person (more party power).
As I said, I think LE is beyond the point of doing something like this without radical changes.
I know that one the reasons i didn’t keep playing Grim Dawn MP is because the “find a party” interface was absolutely awful. The few times I was able to find others to play with it was quite fun. The other reason, as you might suspect, is that the number other players looking for MP in Grim Dawn was quite low…
edit: my point being, it’s important to get the “easy” stuff right too
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From memory it uses the same UI as Titan Quest and that was released in 2006…
as far as i know from mikes live streams and dev blogs. EHG wants to make the game be a solo type of game. and MP is just for those that want to play together. based on info i have found there is not going to be any advantage to play MP over solo. devs have stated they dont want this in there game. its also why there will be no trading like poe has
only thing i know of so far is when playing with others mobs with have increased HP and thats it. dmg stays the same drop rates xp ect…
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Theres always an advantage playing MP vs Solo. Mobs split damage as they don’t focus attack a single player. If a player dies, he can portal to one of his teammates. And you have skill synergies between characters. If there’s trade you’d be able to obtain better gear more easy.
These are just the basics that are always there without having the devs implement anything special for group play.
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Well, the problem is you’re taking what’s basically a single-player game, but shoe horning in multiplayer functionality. That’s the issue the genre has had since… forever. It’s traditionally been a single-player game that has allowed social MP, not a the other way around. For that, there are MMORPG’s.
Also, I’m not sure how this is any different than people playing WOW who are upset they have to join groups/raids to obtain the best gear, and beat the toughest content. The ability to play MP in an ARPG is basically a novelty for social people who like to do things with their friends/other people… not unlike people who carry all their paints and miniatures back and forth to each other’s houses to ‘paint together’. Although it has also been “abused” as a way to power-farm content, to trivialize the difficulty or manipulate the increased drop rates (which are bullshit concepts in the first place).
As mentioned above, the real problem with introducing group-required content, into a single player environment, is alienating the people who don’t care to partake in MP. Like I said, this isn’t an MMOPRG, and to suddenly introduce MP-requirements is going to turn people sour to it. Much like if LE suddenly required PVP elements as gateways to content.
To be honest I’d be quite upset and disappointed if there were any content gated behind grouping with strangers. I’m almost 40, had my fair share of raiding in multiple games, and ultimately got fed up with the drama of a raiding guild (which I was a leader of as well back in the day) or the frustration of a PUG raid.
So kudos to the devs for stating they don’t want to turn Last Epoch into Lost Ark (which is a really great solo experience up to a point where you literally can’t progress any further without a raid group).
If the multiplayer will be something like in D3 where you get a bonus to XP and drop chance in a group but you can do everything on your own then it will be perfect for me.
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You’ll get that 'cause you’ll be killing mobs quicker, not sure there’s a need to make it even more efficient playing in a group.
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So, technically, if a given Boss (for example) has a 1% drop rate on a unique, and you do that boss in a group of 4 instead of solo, then there is a 4% (or whatever that math works out as, I suck at math) for that unique to drop. EHG has already confirmed “in-party, in-instance trading” a long time ago, so at a bare minimum, if you play LE MP the same exact way you play LE Solo (farming bosses for loot), and you party with friends who will trade you your unique you’re after in exchange for doing their boss next, then you will be able to obtain target uniques more quickly in a group, technically speaking.
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Exactly.
It’s 1 - 0.99^4 = 3.94%, so yes, technically 4%. However, if the drop rate is 25% then doing it in a group of 4 wouldn’t make it a 100% drop, it would be only 1 - 0.75^4 = 68.36% which is obviously much less than 100% but in general, if your group shares loot then you have a much higher chance to get what you want than doing it solo.
Which I always thought was a bullshit bonus. Basically just bends solo players right over the table…
“Yeah, it’s already hard enough to get the items you want, solo. But, we’re going to add insult to that injury and make it EASIER for people in groups to get them… muahahahhahahahaah!”
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That’s not something anybody is doing on purpose, though. It’s just a natural consequence of a loot system where every player gets their own set of drops. And all of the alternatives that I know or can think of feel much worse.
im well aware of that im not new to diablo like arpg games. every one of them has that. others just give more loot or even up the dmg mobs actually do. per the devs theres going to be none of any of that. apart from mobs will have higher HP when playing in groups.
devs dont want anymore advantage other than what you just said.
I’d counter that I have watched more than a handful of streamers that constantly party, simply because of the increased loot drops…and it’s not just the natural “there are 4 of us, so 4x loot”. Many games also give an increased drop/rarity % for grouping…to encourage grouping. Not to mention many of them also have an increased xp bonus as well, to counter for the “increased mob toughness”. But I have yet to see any competent groups that struggle due to that increase. Player synergy, and general OP factor of ‘good’ players tends to heavily outweigh the slight increases to hp/dmg granted to npcs.
Sure, but that’s not what we’re talking about. The comments you replied to - which I replied to your reply to - was specifically about the “pure” bonus chances for getting items that naturally comes from 4x people = 4x items dropped = 4x chances to roll the item, explicitly absent any additional bonuses to quantity or rarity.
I’m sorry, you have reached the necro-mail of Mael. Replying to something written 4 months ago will result in auto responses.
I cannot keep my brain on hold on old discussions indefinitely. Please reply in future in a timely manner to elicit an actual human response…
My interest has moved on from this topic.