I hope you understand me now…
Kinda, but not really. Players that push past 1k or 2k corruption are a very small minority. They’re the 1% of the 1%. Getting to 40k means you’re the 1% of the 1% of the 1%.
EHG needs to add content to keep players engaged in the 500c-1.5k range, since there really isn’t anything between Aby and Uby, which is a huge gap.
We’re still some ways away from having to worry about the 30k+ farmers.
The first will keep a lot of players around for a longer time. The second will keep a handful of players around for a longer time.
500c–1.5k corruption would take a maximum of 15 hours for a good player. After that, there’s nothing left to do. The time I’m talking about is for solo play. If we assume 4-player games, that timeframe drops to 8–9 hours. It would be a completely empty game.
You think too much in terms of C++. In C# you usually just use int (=int32) for every variable and hardly ever short (=int16).
I know you can read it as the final echo being a conquered tower, but what I read from that is simply like a conquered tower. Meaning a special echo that isn’t just the same as the rest of the echoes but is unique.
There’s no indication that it is like conquered tower. I think they explicitly mean Conquered Tower or any other ones with a reward, such as Turtle. Maybe they add new “rewards” that you could only do at the end of an echo-chain. But that would also be stupid. Players would instantly demand these to become singular, placeable echoes.
EHG needs to add content to keep players engaged in the 500c-1.5k range, since there really isn’t anything between Aby and Uby, which is a huge gap.
We’re still some ways away from having to worry about the 30k+ farmers.
It is from the start of the campaign till 1.5k range, to be exact, but agree otherwise.
Anything beyond 1.5k corruption is just meaningless bordom-killer. At that point you should declare your character “done” and move on.
And yet delve in PoE was coded as int16. I’m sure there are plenty of other variables in the game that are coded as short. With a game this big and complex, you try to save corners wherever you can to improve performance just a tiny bit. Especially for servers with multple players at once, it adds up.
I wouldn’t be the least surprised if a bunch were coded as int8 (tinyint) as well, like your level, number of passive points, etc. Values that you can expect never to go over 255.
Why? Did players complaint that they couldn’t place the rift cavern in echoes?
You get a new mechanic, it has a unique (or more) zones at the end of it, you’re expected to play through the mechanic.
It makes no sense to me that a mechanic that is unrelated to tombs should be made compliant with them.
If the breach mechanic also has an exclusive zone as you progress with it, would players also expect to be able to place them with tombs and completely bypass the mechanic entirely? Seems counter-intuitive and kinda dumb, especially when we need things to keep us engaged, not things that can be shortcutted to the end immediately.
You’re talking about balance/challenge, which is a different (but equally important) thing.
What I meant is that you do the campaign, then you do normal monos, then you do empowered monos with harbingers, then you do Aby at around 300-400c and then you have nothing new to do between that and Uby, which requires 1k+. Not even easy things. It’s all just the same you’ve been doing at 400c repeatedly until you’re strong enough to do Uby.
At least until around 400c you have a bunch of new stuff added. It’s not challenging due to the balance, but you get new stuff.
But between Aby at 400-500c and Uby at 1.5kc you have absolutely nothing new and it’s always the same thing for a really long time.
and yes … I have no expectations for the upcoming season of Last Epoch :))
It’s all about precedence. I really expect that one of the echo-chains will indeed have the Nemesis Conquered Tower at the end as they wrote in the announcement. We’ll probably also have others like Turtle at the end. And because you can place the Nemesis Tower freely in your echo web, any other new ending echo that is really rewarding and should be done in succession would stick out like a sore thumb.
Also Rift Cavern’s don’t need to be done that often really. You get the Primordial Item, then maybe a few more times for a better roll and your done with the mechanic for the rest of your playthrough. Those few couple times you need to do Rift Cavern, you can easily do in your monos by just playing. You don’t even need to do Nesting Groove. It appears in every other mono anyway.
(You could also just repeat it in the maps of the campaign because it always respawns in the same maps. So dumb. The more I think about the whole Season 3 mechanic the more flawed it appears. How the hell could they make a dino hunting season so boring…)
Fair enough and I agree. There’s a void of things to do between 500c and Uby.
So in summary this whole post is about if EHG manages to fill this void in Season 4 or not.
Only breach or the echo-chains could do that. Corrupting items does not.
I suspect echo-chains will be a good QoL but not it is not something very new and engaging enough to fill the void. So in my opinion, only breach is the remaining contender. I’m as sceptical as @Kartal.
EHG knows of this void too, they have seen questions about it in the streams and I think Mike also talked about it at one point. But I think they will address it only in Season 5 with the new boss.
If we do, then yes. We’ll have to see. What I understood from their announcement was that we’d get unique echoes in the same vein as corrupted tower. Having the actual corrupted tower at the end seems dumb. It’s basically imprints with extra steps.
I did it lots of times because I didn’t want just the item I was using but also plenty of other items for other builds.
The fun in Season 3 was, personally, just making all sorts of new builds that didn’t exist before. But I’m an altoholic and I love creating new characters with new build ideas.
I don’t think it will. We’ll get breaches during the campaign, almost certainly, so it will be just another new thing you can do from the start, like rift beasts. It won’t fill the gap, unless they add new woven echoes or some zones that require 600 or 700c to enter.
Same for chain echoes. I expect we’ll be able to get them even at 100c.
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I could bet on that we’ll see exactly the corrupted tower as an ending echo. 
I get that appeal. Personally I look at alt’s more as of separate new characters which my old character didn’t help in any way (full SSF).
Hence I also want them to completely shake up the meta each season. It gives the opportunity for less known builds to shine and be considered. Maybe even new builds.
Yes, they wrote: Omen Windows appear as a new type of random encounter throughout both the campaign and the endgame.
Honestly, maybe they should reserve those mechanics for endgame only (Nemesis, Rift Beasts and Omen Windows)? If they want to make the campaign more interesting, the should make the campaign more interesting. On the other hand, I like that they added champions. Because they are really dangerous in the campaign and not connected to some special mechanic. You get too close and they chase you.
It’s a bummer.
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and when permanent players who play the game for hundreds of hours want access to seasonal content, seasonal enjoyers will bitch and say stupid stuff like “but then players will leave in a few hours”.
tbh, most seasonal content are consumed at an alarmingly fast rate because the games have been min maxed to the extreme. in poe for example, people can hit lvl 100 on day one.
on another thread, some dude “tried LE for the first time”. he tried 3 different builds and got to corruption 700. i’ve played LE on and off doing my own thing. barely scratched corruption 250. fuck me for doing my own thing.
but thats what the majority of players like. just following builds and having strong power fantasy. all seasonal content will always be quickly consumed as long as OP builds exist.
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It was very contradictory. You appear to believe that a new skill would be interesting to play but you don’t feel that there’s anything to actually play through (which is the real issue, IMO).
Monos have “unlimited” scaling, so given that, what does “finishing the game” mean? 500c? 1,000c? 10,000c? Killing Uberroth in 5 mins? 1 min? One shoting him?
Yes & adding a new skill wouldn’t change that.
It’s good for alts & alt builds but that’s about it. Oh & hopefully more build diversity.
They add a new one or two active skill gems each league, plus supports.
What’s that? Emoowered monos are the same as normal monos, just harder. You get 2 new bosses (Harbingers) & that’s it.
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It’s something people want to extend the playability of the game, because there is no content in the game right now and there won’t be for a long time. I’ve already made this very clear if you had read our previous messages (above). This is probably the sixth time I’m explaining it, so I hope you won’t call it a mistake or a contradiction again.
I think you’ll understand what I mean once Season 4 starts. In Season 3, I reached 1800+ corruption and did Uber on the same day. The same thing will happen again, and then the question will be: what do we do next? I was simply offering a suggestion.
If you have a suggestion yourself, you can share it too, right? Because on Discord I already gave other suggestions directly to the devs:
- Torchlight Infinite (Cube)
- Path of Exile (Heist)
- or any kind of gamble mechanic
I asked whether they could implement similar systems as mini content or seasonal events for Season 4. Their response was that even something like Heist alone would take at least a year, which is fair. After that, there was basically nothing left to suggest—except asking for new skills.
That’s all this is about.
I’m not calling it a mistake, but as Heavy said, it is kinda contradictory. You say that you want new skills added to classes & while I agree that does add new things to try, it doesn’t, IMO, address the more fundamental issue you raise, that there’s no end game content to play through other than that which we have been playing through for several seasons already. While I’m clearly not playing in the same level as you, I agree with that point, I just mostly disagree that adding new skills fixes that particular issue.
I think PoE’s implementation of skills is “better” in this regard because they can make one new skill gem that all classes can use (with varying degrees of success, but that’s kinda part of the point, trying to take a skill & use it successfully on a class that has minimal support for that archetype), while in LE, the devs make one skill & only one class or potentially only one mastery can use it.
Is it reasonable to assume that that was in legacy/standard? If so, that’s an issue that standard will always have if the league mechanic is released there at the same time, you can take your pre-existing character with good/godly/etc gear & just blast through the content then complain that there’s nothing to do. Do you not see the problem there?
Yeah & it’s a good suggestion, more skills is always good, but, IMO, it doesn’t deal with the underlying issue of the lack of things to do. To an extent we’re spoiled by PoE’s well-over-a-decade of content giving us lots of stuff to do & that’s a significant barrier to entry for new players in the genre.
Adding new skills obviously doesn’t solve the problem—there’s no need to even explain that. What I’m saying here isn’t about fixing the issue. What I mean is that adding one new skill to each class increases build diversity.
I know very well that in Season 4, if I want to grind hard, the entire game will be basically finished in around 10 hours. And honestly, if they only do balance changes, I don’t want to play the same builds over and over again. I want to try a new build that I haven’t seen before.
That’s all this is about.
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Also, new Rogue skills are being added for Season 4. As someone who hard-grinds in almost every game, I can say this clearly: those skills might be very good in maps. You might even be able to kill Uber with Shuriken. But you won’t be able to push corruption with them. It’s completely obvious what those skills are meant for—I saw it the moment they were revealed.
To me, it feels like the devs are basically saying, “Just kill Uber, that’s enough.” But for me, Uber is not endgame. That’s purely my personal view.
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Yeah, I think this is one of the difficulties in making arpgs, there’s such a wide range of player skill levels, from you down to people who struggle with the campaign (yes, they exist, we have at least one on the forum, god bless him).
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right
This is what I don’t understand. In Season 3 you had the option of playing around with a dozen new builds after you “finished the game”. You seem to think that isn’t worth doing. So why are new skills any different?
What is the actual difference between using primordials to create new builds or using new skills to create new builds?
You don’t seem to be an altoholic and neither do most of the players, considering Season 3 retention. So what, effectively, would be the difference between Season 3 retention to a hypothetical Season 4 with a dozen new skills?
I just fail to see how you can see new skills as something worth doing and new primordials not worth doing when they deliver the exact same thing.
Yes they are. In fact, they’re actually saying “Don’t even bother with Uber. 99.99% of you won’t be able to kill him”.
That is the part of the game they’re addressing right now. You’re way way way ahead of everyone else and it will be a while until EHG does stuff that will address your own issue.
Let’s not forget that they don’t actually want people doing 10k corruption. They likely don’t want anyone going over 5k either. They just fail miserably at nerfing overpowered stuff. Otherwise no one would be going too much over 2k corruption (especially because there actually is no point or benefit in doing so).
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All skills in this game—even if used with primordial items—are designed with the logic of “just be able to do Uber”, except for 2–3 Rogue builds. We didn’t need primordials to kill Uber before, and still don’t. I don’t know how many times I’ve written this, and apparently you haven’t read it.
Uber is not endgame for me. Arena, for example, is a ridiculous mechanic that I assume the devs made to mess with us players. The only other thing left in the game is pushing corruption, right?
New skills will slightly change the playability of the game. Maybe extend it a little or a few days at most. That’s the maximum impact. If nothing new or different comes, and they just go with the mindset of “let’s add 2–3 new skills to Rogue and just balance the others” (which they probably will), the new season’s mechanics will basically be meaningless—a mini version of PoE’s Breach mechanic.
There will be nothing extra or different in the new season. I’m repeating this one last time: **skill additions will at most extend the game a few days. They won’t add anything else.
By the way, if they don’t put a limit on corruption, they can scale it however they want—I’ll still hit 50k corruption, no matter what they do.