Yeah you’re probably right. But if anyone knows for sure, please let me know!
Also, if anyone knows how affixes that are based on your stats work with forge guard minions, please let me know. examples: the previous ruby fang example for forged weapons, or thornshell’s “Increased Flat Damage Reflected to Attackers per Attunement” for ring of shields.
Ok…
Who votes that @stebobibo creates a “How things Work” FAQ thread here on the forum… ?
He/she/they must have a huge list of question/answers by now…
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haha, so true, and good idea! 
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That would depend on how much stats the minions have not to be confused with how much bonus they get from your stats.
Does anyone know how the crystal sword interacts with forged weapons? It has “increased melee elemental damage” and “increased elemental melee attack speed”. I’ve read this post on crystal swords: crystal sword and it seems like the increased damage is always active, but to get the attack speed you have to use an elemental attack. But do forged weapons use elemental attacks?
Side note, I find it weird how the writing of “melee elemental” and “elemental melee” are reversed like that. Is that on purpose?
Forged Weapons would only benefit from the Increased Melee Elemetal Damage, if you have any kind of elemental damage type on your weapon or giving your minions any kind of flat melee elemental damage.
They would not gain attack speed though, because they only us a basic melee attack, which only has a melee and physical attack. (You can find this information ingame, by pressing alt on any skill, that refers to Forged Weapons)
Not sure what you are talking about, everywhere in the game it’s refered to Melee Elemental/Physical/[insert any damage type]
Thanks once again, Heavy! A
These tooltips can be kinda misleading though. Because, yes, it does say only melee and physical on those tooltips. But for the tootip on your action bar it includes fire (when you have the added fire node).
Wrong on this one. It certainly does say:“increased elemental melee attack speed”, and not “melee elemental”. Here’s a screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/a0Q9NaL
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The Minion get’s the Fire tag yeah, but I don’t think the melee attack it uses will get a fire tag.
Flat Added damage does usually not modify tags, there are only a few exceptions of this, which specifically state it.
I could swear this was different on previous patches lul.
Dammitt’s Lastepochtools also has it correctly
As much as I like Heavy being wrong, the second implicit is “increased melee elemental damage”. Not sure how he is wrong? Even having read his post several times…
The third implicit is “elemental melee attack speed”. So that is a bit odd that it’s swapped compared to the damage line. Dammitt’s site does he the attack speed line reading wrong though, compared to the game.
I think it is probably just how the descriptors work.
There is Elemental Damage of the Melee type. “Melee” is narrowing the type of “Elemental Damage” the stat is referencing.
There is no such thing as elemental attack speed. It’s “Melee Attack Speed”, of the “Elemental” type. “Elemental” is narrowing the type of “Melee Attack” the stat is referencing.
Sounds a bit convoluted, but it makes sense.
We were talking about the inconsistency of the ordering of the words melee and elemental. It almost always has melee first, but in this case it says “elemental melee” attack speed. It’s the third implicit, not the second. Which you acknowlege in your next paragraph, so not sure what you’re confused about.
Good to know, but it would be hard for any player to know. Because isn’t it inconsistent with how all the other tags in the game work? Like if my skill has a lightning tag, that means it does lightning damage and is a “lightning skill”. So I think they should make this clearer in game.
I was discussing something similar with Llama in another post about casting spells of another element type for mages. And we determined it was all about the tags. Here’s the thread link and some quotes from it. other element thread
Only if it has the fire/cold/etc tag when you cast it. What it was originally is irrelevant.
No, that just adds flat damage, the tags are the important thing.
Shuriken’s Charged Steel node, Swipe’s Umjol’s Guidance node & Fireball’s Plasma Ball node (can’t be arsed to check others) say hi. They add base damage and change the tags without stating that they do so. Even the Shurikens flat added lightning idol & affix adds the lightning tag!
The devs have generally said that adding base damage (as against added damage such as you get on melee weapons & passives) adds the tag while converting the base damage removes the old tag & adds the new one.
And interestingly, it’s not as consistent as that! The idol that adds lightning damage to Shurikens does add the lightning tag, but the “of cooling” idol that adds spell cold damage doesn’t (maybe because it’s adding damage to every spell rather than a specific skill? shrugs).
Wondering what exactly you mean by “change the tags without stating that they do so”. Is it that the game now functions as if the tags were changed, but aren’t actually? That would be a big issue if it’s true.
Wow, seems like the devs have some consistency issues to work out! Good job snuffing those out, Llama.
What I took Heavy’s comment to mean was that if a node/etc converts or adds tags then it would say so, however that is not the case. The nodes I listed add damage to the skill and add an additional tag but don’t say that they will add a tag.
Conversions, however, certainly say that they convert tags.
I see what you mean. For example with elemental nova, the nodes that convert it say on the tooltip what the new tags will be. However, it’s not the case that all conversions say this. Acid rain node (from barrage of arrows skill) is one such example. It certainly converts all phys to poison, and even changes the tag, but doesn’t say so like the elemental nova nodes do. Just another inconsistency in the game, I guess.
Ele Nova is different though since that’s disabling certain novae from being used by the skill, it doesn’t actually convert anything (since it’s a spell and the vast majority of the damage is coming from adaptive spell damage).
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