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How does Mana Strike's Celestial Precision node work?

Mana Strike’s Celestial Precision node reads: “Mana Strike gains base critical strike chance equal to a percentage of your current mana, but loses a fixed amount of base critical strike chance.” Does it depend on your flat current mana value, or the ratio of current/max? My initial interpretation was the latter but it occurs to me that “percentage” could also refer to the 10% specified later. Also, does this modifier to base crit apply to the spell components: Lightning from Mana Storm and Spark Charges from, er, Spark Charges?

You should carefully read the wording of the detailed node description.
If you are unsure what the short descriptions means, the fulltext often gives clues#
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This does not affect skill like Mana Storm or Spark Charges proccing, since they are their own entity.
Basically most skills that are individual proc state something like “X scales with Y and Z, but not with other nodes on this tree”
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It actually would have if it weren’t for the “but not with other nodes on this tree” line. Just because a this is a secondary effect doesn’t mean it won’t inherit modifiers from the tree.

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OP, as the node says, it does two things. Firstly it takes your current mana (eg, 300 of 500), takes 10% of it (30, in this example) and adds that as base crit (30%) for Mana Strike. Then it subtracts 5% base crit for Mana Strike leaving the skill with a net 25% additional base crit. So as long as your current mana is above 100, it will give you a net benefit to the skill’s base crit.

Conversely, if you had negative net mana, it would reduce the skill’s base crit by 10% of that as well as the -5%, so if you had -50 mana that would be -5% as well as the -5%.

Edited for being half awake.

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Thanks, I had forgotten about that line in Mana Storm. What about the spark charges? As far as I can tell, that isn’t specified in the node.

Isn’t the general principle that effects triggered by a skill’s tree benefit from the allocated nodes of that tree? Take for example Ride the Lightning in Surge; increased spell damage wouldn’t make much sense for the melee part of the skill. I feel like this aspect of the game could use much more consistency and clarity.

Unless otherwise specified, yes.

Thanks. Just to clarify, the base crit reduction is -5% as displayed, in which case the breakeven point would be 50 rather than 100?

For a spell damage focused Mana Striker, the crit bonus would basically apply to the spark charges IIUC. That’d put it neatly in the gray area where I’ll have to actually think if it’s worth taking or not.

Yeah, sorry, -5%…

In LE, any relevant effect will be inherited. So if skill A is proccing thing B, any relevant effect from skill A will be inherited unless specified otherwise (such as Celestial Precision not being inherited by the Mana Storm node). If thing B is a skill then everything’s flipped and only specified things are inherited (see Firebrand).

Do you mean the way Firebrand specifies what effects it has on character stats and other skills? To my mind, that puts it in a different category. Surge and Lightning Blast seems like a direct example of A proccing B so the triggered Lightning Blasts should straightforwardly benefit from generic modifiers such as Conduit, Lightning Rush and Effluence, right?

Slightly off the original topic, based on some testing with a different char, Fire Aura procced by Disintegrate’s Inferno node doesn’t seem to inherit damage from Disintegrate’s tree. Do you know what’s up with that?

Yes.

The devs have said before on discord that anything that has a skill tree doesn’t inherit any bonuses from whatever is proccing it (unless specified).

That would be a bug, which you’ve already posted. :slight_smile: I thought there was another one that I’d also replied to as well…

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Ah, I had missed that. Let’s see if I’m getting the rule right: Procced abilities inherit the proccing tree if and only if they don’t have a tree of their own. Exceptions will be specified. That makes sense but it hasn’t been obvious to me from what I’ve seen ingame. Could use some loading screen blurbs, maybe?

Correct. Needless to say, if you’re using a melee skill (Surge) to proc a spell (Spark Charges), none of the melee modifiers would be inherited (Shocking Blows node).

Speaking of Surge, what about the Ride the Lightning node? It says that Surge travels in a zig zag motion and deals more spell lightning damage (no further specification) so according to the rule, it shouldn’t affect Lightning Blast. Yet, it’s behind the Lightning Blast nodes; the structure of the tree seems to strongly imply a relation. I think that’s what confused me about the rule in the first place.

Yeah the “Ride The Lightning” Node is one of those nodes, that contradict some of the usual rules.

But since Surge itself is not even a spell, this node has to affect spell damage cause by Surge, otherwise it would be useless.

I am pretty sure, that this node would affect the Lightnign Blast caused by Surge, just because the noted are in the same branch.
This node will probably even affect the Static Cast from the “Discharge” Node, because the “Ride The Lightning” Node does not specifically state it affect LB, but generic Lightning Spell Damage

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Thanks. I guess at this stage there’s no way to be sure of these ambiguities, other than testing in-game. I like the level of friction in skill respecs otherwise but it gets a bit awkward for these kinds of questions. Hopefully things get easier to interpret by release.

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Tooltip clarity is something they will continously work on.

And once we have more details skill by skill stats/tooltips alot of things also get easier to “see”

I imagine the tooltip design to be quite a challenge, given the complexity. One would hope for a breakdown of the different procs, and a way to preview the effects of allocating a node (preferably with the proc breakdown) to reduce the need for trial-and-error respeccing.

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That is indeed a very difficult task and i don’t expect something like this from the get go.

Other skills proccing and affecting other skills is something really advanced.

I would be really happy if in the first iteration of more davanced tooltips we at least get a breakdown of crit, ailment, attack speed and damage per hit. (Including conditional stats that are currently not included, like X on melee hit, Y for fire spell etc)

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