So if I’m understanding this right, it’s basically because +1 basically accelerate your skill development and allow you to hit the key nodes “1 level earlier” during early leveling. For sure this is great, but campaign goes by quickly enough that it doesnt feel like it is much of a game changer from my perspective?
But I am curious about your thoughts on them in the endgame though, when we’re basically looking at 20+1/2/3/4; do you see +skills generally being desirable across the board? Do you think it is easy for people to get a feel of how useful +skill is depending on how they had built their skill trees?
When Leveling a character, your first open a skill tree and you go oh WOW there’s so much to try, yet at level say 15 you only have 6/7 points to spend, So it feels really good finding a +1 level. Not because it accelerates the skill development, but purely because I know get to test something sooner! It creates a small dopamine rush.
I’ve yet to use any +3/+4 levels to a skill but they are indeed powerful IF you know how to utilize them efficiently.
However so far in my experience, going from +20 to +21/22 is really negligble in the fact it doesnt really change gameplay much. Your usually just looking at a little MORE damage.
The way skill trees are designed, almost anyway you plan on playing the skill is accomplished in under 15 levels.
For +Levels to truely be utilized in a OMGAWD i can finally do this… i think there needs to be some extremely powerful nodes/skill changing nodes that are locked behind 20 Points in a tree, but that completely changes how skill trees are currently implement so its just a personal Want.
I think they get how easy they are to use, but i think they also quickly realize its not as powerful as one might first be led to believe.
They look powerful when your skills levels are 1-15 but after you hit level 20 with skill level, going 21/22 just isnt… as much of a dopamine rush as the first 10 levels were.
I’d really like to see skills scale with different powers instead of with stats. And for this to make skills that get above level 20 Much more impactful for each level past they go!
Example
Sorcerer Skill Meteor:
3 Options are:
Each level increases % Added Effectiveness for the skill (+1% at level 1 - +100% at Level 20,)
Each level increases % Increased area (+1% at level 1 - +100% at Level 20)
Each level increases # of Meteors that fall (1 at level 1 - 5 at level 20)
These would be way more impactful than: 4% damage per INT and they can scale to be more meaningful at higher levels since 4% at level 90 is literally nothing…
At level 21 (10% Increased effect)
at level 22 (25% Increased effect)
at level 23 (50% Increased effect)
at level 24 (100% Increased effect)
Using the above stats (obviously balance if implemented) meteor would get the following boost compared to what its like right now
Right now Level 1 = 600% Added Damage Effectiveness
If passive idea added now Level 1 = 601% Added Damage Effectiveness
Right now Level 10 = 600% Added Damage Effectiveness
If passive idea added now Level 10 = 640% Added Damage Effectiveness
Right now Level 20 = 600% Added Damage Effectiveness
If passive idea added now Level 20 = 700% Added Damage Effectiveness
Right now Level 24 = 600% Added Damage Effectiveness
If passive idea added now Level 24 = 800% Added Damage Effectiveness
Just off the top random idea to get ride of the stat scaling that i dont enjoy
Ideas? thoughts?
the item slot the wanted +x to skill affix can roll on, maybe there is a unique thats way better, maybe the affix can only roll on chest so maybe a T5 or exalted class specific affix is way better
insane luck bc getting an exalted item with acceptable base and usefull other affixes is too much rng for my taste (and reasons boardman21 already pointed out)
as i first read the announcement for the +x to skill affix feature i was really hyped about it, but now its something like “meh”. thanks for bringing up this discussion!
I like @boardman21 idea of +skill scaling some baseline effectiveness of the skill. I find that more intuitive and more inline with what I expect from +skills.
I like the current implementation. +skill affixes also come with secondary stats that benefit not only that skill, but others as well.
Its situational. Some skills benefit more offensively, some have better utility… It depends on your build whether it’s a. advantage or not. And that’s great.
I’m glad that is is not the ultimate op affix that is mandatory in every build/piece of gear.
It’s exactly where it should be. It offers an opportunity and nobody gimps his build by using or not using it.
I found a double T5 rogue chest with a +2 shadow cascade and a +2 to shift. I tried it for a bit but it was not performing as well as a +2 Shadow cascade with T5 Increased damage per active Shadow with Shadow Cascade. I think it’s a situational and personal preference.
I think that Boardman’s idea of a skill locked behind T6, not T5 would be cool. You have to do the hunting to find that and that would be not-tradeable.
I quite like it.
I also like that during the campaign, it forces you to make significant choices. When you find an item with a +1, you could consider using it and removing a slightly more powerful item, in order to get this new advantage.
I agree with the breakpoint issue, it feels bad to wait for T5 to get the +2 but there should be incentive to get to T5 though.
During the campaign a +1 item can be game changing (even more if it drops early), but in endgame or at hight skill levels it really depends on the skill. Some skills are almost at full power with 12 points while some others could easily use 22.
In summary, I’m happy with the system, I find it helpful during early leveling and a bit less consistent in endgame.
I also agree as it is, it is helpful during early leveling but very unintuitive/inconsistent in the endgame (and heavily dependent on both your version of the skill tree as well as how the overall skill tree is laid out).
Weighing the pros and cons this way, I came to the conclusion that the current implementation is not ideal; because we spend very little time in the early leveling, and while useful, is not really that much of a deal. On the other hand, the fact that it is so inconsistent as a desirable mod in endgame made it terrible imo. But you seem to value its early game usefulness more?
It can boost your progress in early game, but not for very long because at that moment skills get points rather quickly. Maybe I overvalue it, maybe it feels more useful than it really is. It’s sometimes difficult to tell apart feeling and reality.
That may be because in early leveling, there are some nodes that you want to grab as soon as possible. ^^
I have been thinking about this exact thing recently while trying to min-max characters and test out way out theorcrafting…
TLDR; imho, the +level affixes are not as good as I had expected when they were announced. They have a widely disparate impact depending on the skills they are used on. The secondary stat is sometimes a more interesting upgrade.
I am of the opinion that the +level affixes need more love and attention.
Firstly, I am not sure about the currrent tier scaling (similar to @Boardman21 above). No idea what it should be as it could potentially make a skill OP but something doesnt “feel” right when comparing it to normal affixes scaling. I also do not think that the scaling should be the same for all +level affixes - see below
Secondly, and probably more importantly for me, the +level affixes seem to have a widely different impact depending on the skills used… For example, I have found that a +2 level to the already powerful Rive melee skill can rapidly make it seriously overpowered and is worth the effort to find/use… When the same +2 for another skill is barely noticed as it still cannot get you to that outlying node that would really make a difference… This is obviously a balance issue but it does make me favour certain +lvl affixes and totally ignore others…
Thirdly, as mentioned above, sometimes the secondary stat has more of an impact across more than just the +leveld skill itself… It almost seems like the secondary stat, at times, is worth more depending the skill…
By comparison, I love the +level to types of skills (rather than individual skills) that are on Uniques… I find these much more appealing. The Invoker set, Wings of argentus, Draalsting… Omnividence etc…
Indeed. One would have to hunt for that specific item that either allocates a node (if it’s a single point one) or ups it with a +N if it is one that allows multiple points.
This could also be interesting if the node would not have to be connected to receive the bonus. It could be considered to allow nodes to go over the cap this way (a 5/5 that increases a skills elemental damage could go to 7/5 for example). But that’s up for thoughts.
The concept I like about this is the diversity - there will be many possible combinations to hunt / trade for and at the same time it would allow trees one could normally not spec. But mostly for when trade kicks in, loot diversity is a good thing to have imo.
