Honesty Thoughts & Feedbacks about end game

Yeah because thats a bad faith argument, if a new player goes anywhere be it reddit, here, or the discord 99% of people are going to tell them “oh you are getting thrashed? get to empowered monos to farm gear faster” and that is the correct answer like 99% of the time.

if your build needs to stop and farm 50 corruption normal monos, it probably just needs to go into the bin.

That really has nothing to do with the empowered power spike. Defeating the harbinger is easy, dont stand in dangerous spots, and you will probably win.

But then suddenly you beat the harbinger, are thrown into a pack of 3 diamond matrons and you lose.

Bosses are purely mechanical and easy to deal with, mobs are entirely stat checks. which can suck for some builds. They should still just tough it out though since its rare that they will be unable to kill anything/dying to the first pack over and over. if they die 2-3x more often, its still worth running empowered cause the loot it drops is just way way higher.

2 Likes

Or move out of the way of the slow moving balls?

Then bitch at the mew section because it’s too hard 'cause you zooooooomed through the previous section.

Yup.

The problem is its in a part of the game where you likely dont have any movement speed, are chilled if you get hit once, then to top it off the place where they spawn they can often spawn blocking your path in tight corridors

Hardcore streamers will unironically just spawn an new instance to get past a really tough rare or blue pack, which is smart.

But I dont think that should be on the mind of the level 5 player who is playing for the first time. Unironically we joke about the crabs being the gatekeepers cause we have a friend who tries poe every league, gets to the dweller and gets owned and just closes the game and does not come back.

The problem with the genre is being challenged is often less about actual skill, and more about resources/understanding. So when you just get chain owned by a mechanic its usually because you dont know what to do and there is no obvious feedback on what to do.

if you are dying to cold damage the answer isnt actually “get out of the way” its “craft some sapphire rings with this obtuse vendor recipe” or “oh actually you are not supposed to fight those, just run past them xd” there is a lot of weird play patterns that are not normal.

I think we should be challenging players as they hit end game or towards the end of the campaign and not at the start.

Most of my seasoned poe friends actually find Act1 to be quite a bit harder then the following 3 acts.

1 Like

Well, you don’t mind and I personally don’t pay special attention, as a veteran player, but on steam forums you get the “game is too easy” post over and over for a good reason.

Many players don’t feel the progression meaningful, and abandon the game early due to being too easy. Then other players hit empowered monos, or Lagon mechanics, and is a real WTF moment, no wonder, they were trained by the game “hey I’m an easy game, you can ignore mechanics and go with meme setups”, until you cannot do it anymore.

Monster balance and player balance is all over the place.

1 Like

Yes, which is what I’m talking about, the smoothness of progression need to aligns with expectations of the player given from the former experiences of the game up to that point.

Which is why I provided the Kitava example in PoE, with Kitava being the first boss clearly showcasing multiple phases (beyond 2) while also being positioned at a distinct turning point for the story. It,s a well done boss, and even twice so.
The first time it showcases ‘this boss is special’ and then hits you with a sudden drop in power permanently… everything afterwards is a clear spike in difficulty but not majorly so.
So when it happens the second time you’re not surprised at the more severe drop in power and the more severe spike in difficulty.

In comparison LE does not give you a difficulty spike from the campaign to monoliths, it actually gets easier, ‘smooth sailing’ and even a bit backwards (Also not good but another topic). Hence when you got from the end of that section into the next (monolith → empowered) you’re surprised that a sudden and quite distinct difficulty spike happens.
It’s bad positioning.
Partially at fault because the campaign is not finished yet, which makes it very hard to properly align follow-up content.

I know, but the balls are really slow & you’ll have your first movement skill by then so it is possible to frostblink (or whatever) on top of them & kill them, I can honestly say that they have never been an issue. Whether they’re in act 1 with white gear or chapter 7/8.

This is the perspective of an experienced player, though. A non-experienced player is much slower going through things. He doesn’t zoom through areas (as can be seen by the number of threads about instanced zones). He’s often overleveled, even if often also undergeared.
A non-experienced player will clear all normal monos, including the left path that we all ignore by now.

So once a non-experienced player gets past the gear and skill checks of Lagon and the level 90 monos, the jump to empowered isn’t as big as it is for experienced players that zoomed everything and already know what to expect.

Yes, which is the point of it from where I’m actually coming from.

It makes such issues bigger, not smaller. And hence why I mentioned ‘if I can feel it is a mild nuisance then how harsh is it in comparison to a less experienced player?’.

If you take a lot of time, get generally hit more often (since experience related very well to how reactive and proactive you act) and will have worse gear then they could’ve easily gotten with a bit of knowledge at the time.

So if that happens… how strong will they perceive the peak in difficulty compared to me then?

So I’ll argue:

it’s the opposite of what you proclaim.

Since they have a hard time to kill the respective bosses and beat the Harbinger (highly mechanical fight) but can re-do it repeatedly until their ‘bash head against the wall’ method finally works… their former ‘status quo’ for monolith running and campaign running of the overall area (not the bosses) changes entirely. Everything is vastly harder.

Where I personally need to look out to not die in-between a less experienced player will instead take a nice nap repeatedly, and that can become quite furstrating.
You don’t wanna ‘go backwards’ and do lower content you’ve already beat but the current content doesn’t allow you to actually progress well as it’s a bit too hard for your build and skill yet… the stage just before that on the other hand being one utter breeze without any issues at all.

So my suggestion to EHG for that is to have a multi-step plan in mind to keep the content aligned.

  1. Adjust end-of-campaign difficulty to start-of-monolith difficulty with a very minor hitch there.
  2. Raise the top-end of normal monoliths to include corruption levels as a need for progression, this would align with the loss of lower-level areas because it’s adjusted to the campaign.
  3. Plan in forethought how much further the implementation of the campaign will push the player before getting into monoliths and adjust the numbers accordingly. Hence lower end rises, minimum needed corruption for the last bits also rises… maybe even raising floor corruption for empowered monoliths along the line as well as non-empowered ceiling level for it.

Like this a smooth progression can be handled for this part, Lagon and the campaign beforehand definitely needs some work as well but that’s a good step in the right direction I would argue.

That is not my experience. As you can see from this forum, the most usual method a non-experienced player uses is asking for help. Which he then receives in the manner of improving his gear and his defenses. So that when he does fix those things he’s much better prepared for empowered monos.
More so than experienced players, which have no issues with making huge leaps in difficulty because they know how to handle that.

Also, how is the jump any greater than the Kitava example you gave of being well done? Most non-experienced players will simply hit their head on Kitava, get killed 20 times in a row and either give up in frustration or, like here, ask for help.

Either is as much a wall to progress as the other for non-experienced players.

This I agree with. In fact, most of the campaign should have a higher difficulty, since it currently has none until Lagon.

This would make normal monos even more boring than they already are. They’re already annoying enough to do for the nth time. In fact, I don’t mind doing the campaign multiple times, but doing normal monos seems like a slog each time.

I would actually argue that we should just get rid of normal monos entirely and simply start every mono as empowered but 0 corruption. Get rid of the area level and use corruption as the sole difficulty counter.

1 Like

yes because the non empowered goes up to 100.

we all feel like it is and there are post about it. part of the problem i see is when we die it doesnt say its to DOT.

thats the point of going COF you cant trade anything. its like playing solo self found.

The most visible one.
Only a miniscule fraction of players reaching a breaking point will ever ask for help and even less will do so publicly.

This is one of the ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ scenarios where adjusting the difficulty itself will lead to complaints about it turning ‘too easy’ or ‘too hard’ suddenly, you can’t get everyone on board with such a simple measure after all.

Which is why I’m rather opting for ‘environmental learning’, hence the game teaching you the processes naturally along the line, pushing your thoughts into a specific way. Some boss which has dangerous attacks to be avoided coming first, but those attacks are easy to avoid, then one which has more, then one with a limited area and those… and then Lagon as an example. That’s proper progression in increments, a player will expect it to happen and will adapt to it.

The same goes for the other progression, like through monoliths. Base game difficulty should gradually ramp up without much variation, only how fast it does can piece by piece increase… which the exponential itemization topic already does by design, so the content itself doesn’t need many ‘hitches’ in it, and if it has them then also… incremental introduction. No issue first time, second time it gets harder, third it becomes a severe thing which will enforce thinking about how to continue.

No, the difference is how you mentally prepare players for it. You have a ton of people complaining about Lagon, day in and out… and if we take the size of the community into consideration the amount of people complaining about Kitava is less… and I think we can both agree that Kitava is a harder boss then Lagon, simply from the sheer amount of mechanics interacting with each other, and still, the number of complaints is less.

That comes from the preparatory phase of having Kitava the first time. First Kitava is not hard at all, but it showcases ‘this fight is special, you need to treat it special’ in several ways. Such measures simply aren’t taken in LE currently… yet. That’s polishing the experience after all and easy to not get right in a good chunk of time.
I’ll argue that PoE does the opposite of what LE does actually, they ‘overprepare’ you in Act 1 with what you can expect from the game difficulty wise, which makes Act 1 frustrating… easing up after. Inverse problem then LE has which is ‘piss easy’ for most of the time before throwing sudden random obstacles in your way without preparation mentally for it. Both are bad.

Share the corruption between monos and give more player agency on how to adjust it.
The whole corruption system in general is not very good, it’s a dynamic system and not a static content system, this means it allows less changes and enforces them to directly align with the itemization speed at any time, which is hard to do.
You get a lot more leeway when making a static system instead that tiers up in some way, bigger steps which are more meaningful and are distinct obstacles to overcome rather then silently slipping into a direction which either bores you out or overwhelms you.

Which would also be an option, and fairly spoken a better one then my above suggestion. But since EHG hasn’t provided ‘visible’ content in enough ways yet it ‘makes it seem’ as if the game has more despite not being the case. This is a perception thing which EHG needs to solve over time, 1.3 might be a big part of that.

This is pretty much what every developer I’ve ever heard talk on the issue has said; most folks just stop playing, they don’t come to the forum to give feedback.

Yeah, why talk about it when you can just… well… leave?

We’re the weirdos here after all investing more time then the ‘normal’ person :stuck_out_tongue:

lol, yup. For all how I say I don’t like trading because it gives me another job, here I am working another job. guilty!

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.