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Honest feedback!

hey guys and ofc Dev!
my name is Noy im fairly new to this game but been playing Arpg for years! i love this game alot and i thought id spend abit from my time to post here a very honest feedback! this might be long so thanks for reading !
now this is a feedback and its not only the bad or good… ill try to have both in but i think its natural that it will be focused more on where the game /dev can improve (in my opinion atleast) im sure not everyone will agree with me but im also sure some would agree !

so first … ill say the game is really fun so awesome job already… i think the whole concept is amazing ! so thanks alot for the effort and making the game . now in order to not make it way too long ill jump right into where i think the game can and perhaps should improve !

1: alot of information is missing for tooltip/skill info and stats ! for example its clear that many skills have different attack speed as base and their scaling of attck speed is different but its not mentioned on the skill… as in what is the base attack per second of the skill. and since there is no skill individual tool tip its very hard to test/check how and if stuff work and scale and impossible to calc and really make build based on fact but right now its more… it seems fine it should be good… but there are no actual numbers. for example i think the skill info when using alt should give alot more information like attack speed multiplier / scaling along side the damage effectiveness.
and for skill tooltip it should really include all the final stats on the skill after all points/items its dps chance to shock/poison/ignite etc … its dps on each allieement effectiveness of these… how many attacks per second skill has after all attack speed… how many projectiles or hit each cast cause… special effects and ofc how the damage types are split… lets say its attack and you have both flat phys flat fire and flat void that the tool tip will say how much void damage it does how much phys and how much fire .,.

2: description / wording of some skills / passive points could be made abit more accurate and clear… overall i think you are doing great but there are some stuff that need some touching… ill give a couple simple examples… marksman Cinderstrike kinda makes you wonder atfirst how it scale how much fire? how much phys you get to know it later from a tool people made but it should be stated on skill.
another one and big one is… marksman detonate arrow skill tree… theres a point that says “doesnt not work if detonate arrow damage is converted” and theres scorpion arrow which says “no longer convert bow damage to lightning” when you see this there shouldnt be problem becuase you are not converting the damage yet they dont work… so i think maybe would be better to write " does not work if the shock effect is converted to another alliement" ?
or poison pool from acid flast doesnt say that it apply frailty yet it does.
and so on :slight_smile:

3: would be really nice and useful to see the stacks of effects on monsters/bosses or have the option to see them toggle them on off… all together or individual?

4: Im after playing quite a few hours in last days and unlocking more stuff it start to feel like the power from passive tree is somewhat tiny and underwhelming compared to items.
especially defensive stats on the passive tree… like all the numbers are very small like 4/6/8 HP on passive points and then items gives huge amount of HP it makes these points on tree kinda meh … or when you see block/glancing blow / dodge points on passive tree they are just underwhelming… they look fairly good and balanced at first when items gives very little but then… later on when you gear up thse 2% or 10 dodge per point seems to be reallly nothing since items gives so much… and it narrow the choice you have in builds becuase the offensive stats on passive tree are scaling way better later in most cases…
i suggest looking again into the main passive trees especially on defensive stats value and on items and maybe take down abit of the power from items in order to buff abit the passive tree it would also make items less powerful and minimize the gap.
you can even consider some different approach like make these defensive stats give more the more you invest into these nods but lock certain tier/lvls of the nods behind certain char lvl… or even different approach maybe consider make some of these stats on passive tree scale per x lvls… like 10 dodge per 5-10 lvls and so on… and 4 HP per 10 lvls… etc etc
but as of now it feels like 60% of the power comes from items 30% from skill tree and only like 10% from the main passive tree honestly with the little choice there is it feels like theres barely any different in power whatever you do with the tree and what choice you make.

5: if we are speaking about items… i think you are repeating the same mistake poe did with items and drop… . there are far too many rare items dropping and only like 0.0001% of them are good to pick up and use … thats how it feels… atleast earlier … yes theres loot filter but thats also performance wise and wht not and theres no real benefit to drop tons of items that the players dont even want to see consider making less items drop and that they are more likely to drop with better tiers.

6: since i mentioned performance while its not “bad” and we can keep decent fps the game still at early stage and the game isnt very zoomy or packed with mobs and stuff yet and we can already see some performance drops in some maps/eras also… to make it shorter ill add it here… some skills and often bow skills can feel abit clunky not smooth and aiming id say is far from accurate small movements with mice and its like the angle doesnt chance but then it just make jump and move too much many bow skills feels bad due to that .

7: if we touch smoothness. game overall fairly smooth and very enjoyable combat… but… some objects makes your char completely stop walking and get stuck even if it is just a tiny brick that you normally walk on… some places and floors makes your char kinda stop and walk in place and then continue walking … it really really ruin the feeling of smoothness…
in some maps where there are some woods on flor or broken breaks and anything it can make combat there really unpleasent with your char stopping movements constantly try fix these and if its too hard maybe consider removing these decoration objects from some eras or paths where we normally walk/fight.

another comfort issue is way points and the time portals
the way points i cant even count how many times the portal and traveling map opened to me accidently while in combat and fighting… i think its a big issue the hit box is way too big the way point is in the middle of combat eras it open a window that take all your screen and prevent actions try maybe consider a key to talk to the way point like space bar… or shrink its hitbox to something small / allow any key to close that window or make that window close immediatly when you take any damage :slight_smile:

the time travel portal… first it has way too long traveling time through the portal making it shorter would be nice already… but also monsters can attack you while you are inside the portal and this should be fixed :slight_smile: ^^

and lastly stun/hard cc : i think that theres abit too much of stun and hard cc… mainly stun i think stun is too strong coming from monsters and coming from players… you really should consider to reduce the chance to stun / reduce stun duration or atleast add passive to every class in its passive tree to deal with stun in different ways… for some classes like rouge chance to avoid stun perhpas passives. and for mage or other classes reduce stun duration passives… so that if someone willing to spend points to soften the effect of stun on him for more smoothness he can do that ^^

that would be all sorry it was so long and thank you everyone who actually took the time to real all this and keep up the good work… amazing game!

Edit : theres seems to be an issue that moving and attacking rapidly causes attacks to not activate sometimes… especially classes that move alot and attack kite… like bow skills constnatly moving back or forward or sides with left click then into > right click to activate skills (even if you bind skill not on right click but lets say R still same) causes attacks to not happen

also in regard to description another example is silver shroud dodge the next attack before any dodge happen … so evven if you would;ve dodged the attack anyway you would waste the stack of silver shroud… i think this should be mentioned or changed . it kinda make it bad for dodge builds becuase they are most likely to dodge the next attack anyway

Edit : also please mention on skills what does “nearby” means… because nearby seems to be different radius for each skill and passive… so i think its important to either set a fix radius for it unless mentioned other wise or mention the radius in every skill/point instead of saying nearby which no one has a clue what is actualyl considered nearby ^^

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First off, welcome to the LE Community!

Wanna just comment on some things, but other than this good feedback.

One thing I learned from the past few years and months, especially when delivering feedback though is: Sometimes less is more.
Sometimes it’s very hard to read walls of text :stuck_out_tongue:

They are actively working on it, but for the most part, many debuffs would not change any decision making, especially the ones that stack indefinitely, like ailments.

Only thing, where I could see this usefull, to see how many stacks you can stack on target with Setup A or Setup B.

But overloading the UI with too much information, that is “just nice to have”, but doesn’t serve real purposes is a dangerous thing.

No.4

While passive points become less and less impactful overall, some of the passives points higher up in the passive tree, are tremendously stronger than the ones you can take early on.

Also you are very much underestimating the Power of Flat HP, and Flat Dodge etc.
Once you stacked some %inc. values for those stats Even 8-10HP can be something like 10-20 HP and that’s A LOT for 1 passive point.

No.5

That is very much a exaggeration. Especially in LE, with how the crafting system works you can make so many Items good, sure there is some RNG revolved in removing undesired stats sometimes.
Espeically since in LE even magic items are very usefull and often times even better than rares. But since rune of removal is so accessable in LE almost any Rare item with moderate high tiers of desired affixes can be made into some great crafting base.

Other than that I don’t have any strong opinion about anything else you said.
Great feedback nontheless.

hey thank you for taking your time to read all this and even replay. i agree on the first part i guess organizing text and feedback isnt my strong side… especially not on a different language… as english is definitely not my first language… but i still wanted to try impress my self

so for your comment about point 4: i havent tried all classes but i can tell you rouge and marksman dont have that… it range between 4 and 6 and i think only 1 place its 8. and when items gives more than a 100 quire easily i think i found low lvl unique with like 150 … +increase and all … these 10 from passive tree atleast in my opinion seems not to matter much. im sure you know more than me… and i do admit some points are fairly strong but they are mostly damaging traits… maybe im wrong but i still feel like passive tree points are not very strong and also its the fact that the choices… because yes there are some good ones… but everyone take them so there isnt real choice .

about your comment to point 5. i agree and its not what i meant to say… i only meant to say that too many rares are dropping and too many are low tiers… that everyone disable them with the item filter. making less of these drop will help to improve performance in the game for free… because maybe 80% of the rares are disabled by everyones filter… why do they need to drop and waste performance then? is all im saying ^^

thank you very much again for reading and thanks alot for the welcome ^^ great game i enjoy it alot and definitely going to continue play . its why i care and bother my self with making the feedback

Regualr Items do not have 100+ Dodge, except the Body Armour.
Also Uniques are an entirely different category, and most uniques that have good flat dodge, are on the same slot, where you can get %inc. dodge on rares (like Body Armour or Belt)

Don’t get me wrong, I understand what you are saying: Taking 6 dodge per passive Point doesn’t seem like much, but when you have 100-200% increased dodge rating every little bit of flat dodge does help, same with Flat Health.

And yes there very strong passives that most people take in many builds and after lvl 60 or 70, you usually fill up some more passives that have decent value.

And it’s just the nature of what it is, that Putting in your first 5 passive points has more effect than taking your 90th or 95th passive point.

I never had any Issues with performances related to items, so maybe that’s why I don’t care how much there drops that I don’t care about.

That’s the type of attitude we need.

People caring about the game and giving honest feedback, positive and negative.

And nothing I try to argue here should sound or feel like I am trying to argue “against” you.
I just want to clear up some things and maybe with more experience you will see some thigns differently.

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I kind of agree with no 4 on passive point. Both on offensive>defensive node and also the power scale vs item. Not in term of theoretical spec at end game but in playing experience.

At the moment, this is not an issue since levelling is so fast in LE, but if the exp needed to lvl up is increased in the full release(12 campaign + 5 endgames), I can see that levelling up quickly become less impactful compared to finding relevant items.

Plus, the highest power spike from passive point is actually around 60-75 where we can finally reached the end nodes. From there on, levelling up gives less impactful upgrade once the end node is filled.

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thank you ! its exactly how i feel only that some classes some builds the points are underwhelming all along the way… take poison marksman … like yes some points are good like the poison chance + poison pen but rest are ok… kind pale compared to items… or theres the 8 life per point with leech leech doesnt work on poison tho… defensive wise theres really not much and even as damage wise theres not much really underwhelming its like. .ohh i got 1 more point ill pot it somewhere but its not exicting points are so little impact in some builds… thats not saying marksman poison is weak but rather how the power is split that skill is stuffed with strong points but the passive kinda ok…

Edit : more to it and another example would be resistance and that tied with it… passive maybe have 5 % poison resist… and all together when you reach to around lvl 51 map if you had bad luck with finding items for your build you are starting to kinda struggle … and when hit by elemt you are hit hard i think taking abit of power from items and putting it into the passive tree would be much more comfortable and in my opinion balanced .
especially since at low lvls all the items you find are also matching the passive tree like not much stats… but then theres a huge grow in item power but tree remain meh

i also want to add that theres a bug/lag or something that happens sometimes not too often but it happens especially on kititng classes that constaly move and attempt to active skills that clicking the skill doesnt activate… like… for example im currently playing a marskman and often im in situations where i click left click to move and then right click to attack over and over… and it happens sometimes that clicking the right click wont actually activate the attack…

i want to also make sure everyone knows i dont dodge or trash the game… i think the game is amazing and very fun ! and personally i definitely plan to keep playing the game and see how it progress and grow… if i were to say the good things about this game it would be even longer post than the negative… but i decided to post the issues so dev know what stuff they should improve… from honest player prespective.

also i want to addit that regarding point 4: passive tree… i looked into more classes last day and i noticed that some classes have fairly strong passive tree and some other classes even if the classes are not weak their class tree is not good… for example i looked at mage tree and i was like wow,… mage passive tree is actually strong 10 life 3 mana per point in first points? while ranger gets 4 Hp without 3 mana …
since i mentioned mana i think it also worth to review mana cost and ways to regen mana on some classes /skills

It’s fine. I am sure the devs appreciate your constructive feedback.

Regarding the class passive difference, I think it is warranted as each class function differently. By design, mage is squishier and more mana-demanding so the passive have more life and mana to compensate for it. In exchange they have less offensive node like crit node compared to rouge. Another example is rouge gets to stack dex in the passive tree that contribute directly to survivability by adding dodge rating, but mage stack intel that gives ward retention which only indirectly contribute to survivability. It is good because it gives each class an identity to it.

yeah i understand the logic and partly agree… but overall i think that making the passive tree pale and items over tunned isnt the right way to go… i feel like too much of the power is locked behind items and no passive tree… making the passive points less exiting
you also only start getting decent items at certain point and you almost max skills passive quite earliy . and all this is with current content more content probably gonna bring more powerful items… which gonna make some of the passive trees even less exiting. .and adding stronger points to make up for it… only gonna make less diversity cause people will just skip the weaker ones… which already is quite an issue… the game does have large options for builds for each class… but there isnt quite diversity or unique crafting. .for example… if both you and i gonna make poison detonate arrow… we gonna roughly have the same builds… we both gonna take probbly about same points on tree and on skills … there might be tiny difference of small choices of comfort but it will literally be the same build… and this is greatly effected by the choice of “good points” and the rest being… not much of matter… its still prerealse so im sure they will add more and grow… but this is a feedback to give them something to think about for future… personally id rathr some stuff get nerfed abit on items top tiers and some of that power added to the passive trees to make them matter more
and i think they should definitely review some of the mana in some classes… like marksman skills … or tree… unless you make a build around 0 mana cost skill you gonna have to use these 0 mana cost as filler skill becuase theres 0 way to maintian mana .
like detonate arrow and all the utility skills cost alot of mana when fighting boss youd run out of mana quickly… or if you want to make flury with that 4th shot as multi shut honestly mana is all gone in like 1 second

I am actually of the opinion that the devs should nerf both the mid-game + top-end items and put that power in passive. My view is that it will reduce the power spike of player power, making it easier to balance the monster power alongside it.

Regarding each build(like poison rogue) having the similar nodes, that would be a common issue in ARPG. There is always a meta. PoE to a certain extent have more options here thanks to their complexity, but LE is the middle ground so the same meta build would be more apparent. I am happy to take that as drawback compared to PoE as we do not need to stick to a meta build to clear content in LE.

On mana, there has been a very clear direction that it will always be a limited resource that constrain player level. I can see the rationale behind it, and can also understand the annoyance of having to deal with it. Personally, I just take it as unique flavor of LE.

Anyway, I am rather certain power scaling would be reconsidered sometime in the future when more contents are out. The current patch already seen a narrowing of mono level scaling which will get worse with more chapters. So, we’ll see what happen then.

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then we agree overall. and yes i get it that mana should be considered for all classes builds and not ignored or too easy… . but i also think every class should be able to make investment to make skills useable. the flury + multi shoot passive literally remove all mana in 1 second it makes it not useable… at all… theres different between mana to be considered and needed required investment to no matter how much you invest in mana you still cant use the skill .

as builds… meta no meta isnt the problem my point wasnt about being better its about whatever you want it or not look at guide or not the choice as it is is very limited per build and then the weaker points being so weaker make it quite trivial which points you take
if i joined the game and on my first day crafted a build without knowledge of the game for first build… and then when i looked it up when i was abit confused about function i noticed my build was 1 to 1 to that marksman detailed guide and i didnt use it.

anyways ill update my feedback abit to add couple things such as sometimes when moving + clicking for skill rapidly cause skills not to activate… at first i thought it was only me… but people in chat also complained about it…

and silver shroud dodge the next attack even if you are full dodge build and would;ve dodged the attack anyway… so its silver shroud > dodge chance and i think the game should state that

Flurry-multishot wise, the build is a screen clear build and the dev wants to avoid player standing still, holding a button to spam the skill nonstop. I do agree that more ways to manage mana is good for the game but flurry-multishot is not a good example.

By meta, I don’t mean looking at a guide for a build but more on there is always only a path or two that gives you the best result for a build. If you discover it yourself then awesome and I like that feeling in LE. Of course, your point of more diversity in a build is valid but it comes with difficulty to balance. and potentially loss in build identity. Wouldn’t complain one bit if LE is able to achieve that milestone.

For this one, I think you will get more traction if you create a separate thread in the bug section(if there hasn’t been one created yet) mentioning what skill you use and more details on when it happened. Better if it can be repeated reliably.

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thank you i might… it seems common it happens to me on every single bow attack ! its more about how fast/ many times you are clicking.

as for multi shoot i can imagine you are talking from past experience which in this case i cant relate becuase when i tried it once i saw… ok this literally can not be working atm … but either way point is not for specific skill but rather to say some classes like rouge need to be reviewed mana wise… and the passive trees should include ways to handle mana… and mana gain on 0 cost mana dont solve the problem but they make you use filler skills which for some people can be less fun to use different attack skills …

I want to respond specifically to point 4: That passives are weaker than items. Imo this is how it should be. Passives give a steady stream of power where item upgrades can be a nice satisfying spike. Particular nodes and some classes/masteries definitely lack some interesting top line nodes, but overall I think it is close to the correct power per point.

Separately I was wondering how far you have made it into endgame for context?

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hey thank you for reading and the replay ! id say i agree ! first when i wrote it i had only played marksman… but then now i took a look at Sentinel through the tool and it looks like entirely different lvl of powers the passive points are like twice+ more powerful and they are all pretty good .