So I tried using a glyph of insight on a belt, and I didn’t get the outcome I was supposed to get.
My belt is T7 prefix, T1 prefix, 2x T3 Suffix and should get me volotile zombies according to the calculator. However, when I upgrade the T1 using the glyph, I got traversal cooldown recovery.
Anyone have any idea how I screwed it up?
Also, I did check to make sure I was using the BELT selector on the calculator. I’d post screen shots if I could.
It’s possible that the calculator is wrong. Maybe there was a change at some point and they didn’t update the formula.
I don’t know if tunklab is still maintained, tbh. I’d assume so because the version is still updated (although they haven’t yet updated to yesterday’s version number), but it’s possible some of the information is outdated.
You’re not the first with this issue. I know that sometime ago there was also someone complaining about this issue.
Ultimately, it’s a 3rd party tool, so it’s not EHG’s responsability. Although it would be nice if they could provide the formula for it, or a similar calculator.
Thanks. I tried a couple of times and got wrong results both times… I figured it might be a me issue, but then had to stop and check as I don’t THINK I’m that dumb… lol
As much as I’d love the extra minion damage, It would have mattered as the belt was only a 2 LP and it didn’t carry over on the slam. Glad I wasn’t trying for a 4LP version.
I still think it’s kind of dumb that it’s fake random. Things shouldn’t be designed in a way that demands the player have some hidden knowledge not provided by the game. If the intent is for players not to be able to pick what they want, it should just be random. If the intent is for players to pick what they want, then the system should somehow communicate that in game.
Needing the calculator to play correctly is bad enough, but then if they change something and nobody knows you get situations like this where people feel cheated and confused until 3rd parties get updated information.
I think the fact that this part is determinant is a nice change. There should be more things like this where you can actually pick outputs.
I don’t fully agree with this. This is no different than D2’s runewords. There is nowhere in the game where to consult this and yet I really enjoyed the runeword mechanic.
It’s a mechanic that is supposed to be hit and miss until you figure it out on your own. The fact that the player community then either datamines it or just pools their resources together to get at the results doesn’t change this.
You can see examples like these in many games, where you have to figure out the correct “recipes” but you can simply look it up online because someone else already did that for you.
And, at its core, it’s no different from build guides: it’s something that you can figure out on your own but someone in the community already did it for you.
Right, but if that’s the intent, make it an actual part of the UI. Not just wiki-fodder. (Or calculator in this case.)
The game gives no indication in game that this is it’s behavior. I kind of doubt I’d have ever learned about it on my own if nobody told me. I can’t imagine that many people would. So either you spend your entire playtime blind and just treat it as though it were random, or if you are cursed with this knowledge, there’s no real reason to figure out at that point, you’re best off just going to the calculator instead of tossing away perfectly good gear and rare-ish glyphs on experimenting a system you only knew about because you looked at stuff online but are simultaneously too stubborn to look into more for some reason.
I haven’t played D2, so idk how that system works, but as far as things like PoE’s vendor recipes, while I don’t think that’s a great system either, at least there the game actually shows you the output so if you stumble on it you know something was different. All items vendor for specific currency shards, so if something suddenly shows up in the vendor output you have a moment where you can learn something you didn’t know.
The glyphs don’t do that. You use them like you would with any crafting tool and it outputs what appears to be a random outcome. Any one event you witness isn’t enough to determine there’s a deterministic pattern. You’d have to record your results over many attempts trying many different combinations of things, and you’d have to note everything about the item, not just the affix tiers, because you don’t know that that’s what determines anything. And why would you do that in the first place when nothing else works this way and nothing else encourages that kind of investigation.
I honestly can’t think of a justifiable reason for it working exactly like this other than to please a handful of stubborn ARPG curmudgeons who like things being inconvenient or obtuse just for the sake of some abstract idea of difficulty or skill expression, regardless if those things make sense or are any fun.
In D2 you just put runes in sockets and if you place the runes in their correct order you get the runeword bonuses. If not, you just get the rune bonuses.
But your PoE example is the thing I agree with. When you choose the glyph of insight and select a prefix, it should tell you which one you’ll be getting before you use it.
They don’t need to actually present some table with all possible results in-game, just add a preview before you actually use the glyph.
That way, at least, you won’t be spending the rune when the calculator (or whichever source you’re getting it from) is wrong/outdated and you can still experiment on your own if you want to.
This was the basis for D2’s runewords. You were supposed to figure them out on your own by trying multiple different combinations. Same as with recipes. At least initially. I don’t actually remember if Blizzard eventually released them on their own or if it was just datamined, but I doubt anyone went through all different possibilities (it would be many millions, many of them with very rare and hard to get runes).
Ah ok. Yeah at a minimum that’s what I had in mind. idk if there’s a better design for whatever goal they have with it, but this would be the lightest touch to the system that would make it less opaque without changing the underlying system.
I assume these order dependent effects were noticeably different yeah? That’s kind of the crux of the issue. All the outputs of glyph of insight are from the same distribution. So there’s no way to distinguish a random output from a predetermined one.
That said, just for my own sanity, I went to check the item description for glyph of insight and… it does actually say that it’s based on tiers lol. In my mind it just said a random experimental affix or something like that.
In my defense, I had already been playing before these were added and I initially learned about them from announcements rather than finding a new item and reading what it does. I do kind of wonder if new players actually read this more thoroughly when they found it for the first time.
The part where you need to waste precious glyphs and gear on experiments is still kind of not great, but I guess my point about the game not explaining it anywhere isn’t actually technically true. It’d certainly help it if the crafting UI showed this in a second place like we were talking about though.
Different game, but I’m proving the meme of TFT players not being able to read game descriptions lol.
Runewords were basically sort of like a set. Each rune has a specific bonus (+int, mana regen, stuff like that) that depends on the item type (one gives you damage vs undead if on a weapon, lower stamina drain if on armor and +block chance if on a shield). So if you place 3 runes, for example, you get those 3 bonuses. But if it’s a runeword (meaning you placed those 3 runes in a specific order, you’d get extra bonuses, usually very good ones, like +skills, increased damage, even being able to use skills that aren’t from your class.
There were around 50ish or so runewords, I think. Maybe more. But some were so strong that they became mandatory and others were so weak or niche that they were rarely used, if ever. They became pretty much mandatory like sets were in D3.
So, in theory, you could just start slapping runes and try to get lucky. But since items runewords could be anything from 2 to 6 runes meant that there are millions of possible combinations. Even more when you consider that a few of them have repeated runes.
In the end, like I mentioned, I don’t remember if it was Blizzard that budged and released the list or if it was simply datamined.
Yeah, a simple line below the affix you are using the glyph on, with a different color, saying what it will be changed to would already be very helpful.
Most people don’t read these things. They assume they’re sort of similar, so it’s no wonder that many people assume insights to be just like chaos but for experimental affixes instead. I see people linking to the game guide in chat all the time (which is an awesome feature, to be fair).
I myself suffer from this. I just tend to be aware of more stuff because when someting doesn’t behave like I expect it to (or when I see some question where I’m not sure of the answer), I tend to look for it.