Hail of arrows

Obtained Bleed stacks from “Puncture” don’t affect “Acid Rain” of “Hail of Arrows”,
despite the conversion.
I would say that hail of arrows doesn’t apply bleeding and poison from all sources, except its skill tree. Thanks.

Its because Hail of Arrows primary damage does NOT hit at all, the only thing that can proc anything on hit is the Skystrike or whatever its called that does Barrage of Arrows on the initial hit only

That bow that converts to poison isnt actually adding poison stacks its just doing ‘poison DAMAGE’ which isnt scaling off anything but ‘Poison Damage %’ on your sheet and ‘Bow damage’

Basically you want as high +Physical/+Fire on your bow and flat damage as it applies to the damage over time. The highest damage I could output was about 16k ticks stacking Fire+Phys+Elemental damage converted to 100% Fire

Thank you! Well, why does it say That “Acid Rain” of “Hail of Arrows” converts all bleed chances from ALL SOURCES to poison chances?
Even more the description of “Hail of Arrows” says - physical, bow attack, DAMAGE OVER TIME, dexterity.

Not sure, I would have to re-read the node but when I tested a poison Hail of Arrows build (from the node and the bow) it did far less damage even with Poison% gear and did not actually apply any damage over time effects, as when the duration ends the damage stops immediately but when Barrage of Arrows hits theres a few extra numbers for a moment

I have added some information to my replay that is above. Thank you
And I got some information from your mates that there are only two kinds of damage in the game, Hit damage and damage over time. hence what kind of damage does “Hail of Arrows” have?

I just tested it then and it is applying a 3 second damage over time effect when Hail of Arrows ends which im sure it wasnt doing last week

Is it applying from what? Its skill tree? Yes, its working with its skill tree, but any other one isnt

probably you have used another attack before you shoot the “Hail of Arrows” and it may still ticking from that attack.

im uploading a video - be a few mins

so im basically wrong about my above comment, im positive I tested it and steered away as it didnt seem to work as I thought

in the vid I have 77% bleed chance with 2x idol and 1x quiver and 29% poison from my bow you can see the ticks at the end of the duration and then I take off the Idols/Quiver with 0% bleed there is no ticks at the end on the first cast and a couple on the second due to the poison chance - so it seems to work but its very weak - I do almost more damage with Multishot bow than a Toxic Serpent Bow of Venom

No worries. Thank you for your detailed answer, I understand and appreciate all you informed me, however you got 5 points of poison chance of its tree (Venom arrows). total 100% of poison damage over time. So, poison and bleed chances from its tree (Hail of Arrows skill tree) are applying correctly. But if you remove that 5 point from Venom arrows and get even 900% of bleed chance from other sources its not, its not applying at all, my friend. Plz try to leave one skill point just for the Acid rain, get high bleed chance or poison chance what ever, from any source and test it again. Plz replay to me I am pretty sure its not working as it should be. Thank you

I just tested without the Venom Arrows node - so 100% bleed > poison chance, using again 77% bleed chance there is NO damage over time at the end so now im just confused and back to my original post

Thank you. Well, the Acid Rain (the node you put one point for) says Bleed chance from all sources converted to poison chance. right? So, I am trying to get high bleed chance from all sources to make that node working, but I dont wanna get that 5 points for the Venom arrows node, I just wanna my bleed chance from all sources (Idols, suffixes, etc…) converting to poison by using that Acid rain one point.

The main point is description of that Acid rain node says that bleed chance from all sources is converted! ALL SOURCES!!!
not from its tree ONLY

Yeah, they are converted. For the skill though. the skill doesn’t hit unless it takes the node that makes it hit so although the skill has bleed/poison chance, it cannot apply it without the node.

It’s like this with any conversion node in any tree and with non hitting skills.

it seems like this is just a case of you misinterpreting the wording, although i can see why you would read it that way.

all nodes in a skill’s specialization tree only apply to that skill’s damage, unless the wording is something like “after using this skill, you deal x% more damage”. in this case, the wording “from all sources” means that all sources of bleed that would apply to that skill are converted to poison chance. so that means affixes on your weapon or other gear, or from the passive tree, or idols.

this does not include nodes from other skill specialization trees because those nodes only affect that skill. the exception to this would be an effect from another skill that grants global ailment chance. for example, in the acid flask tree, you can get a node that leaves behind poison pools, and then another node that gives you global poison chance while standing in the pools. (i know your example was talking about converting bleed chance to poison, but the principle is still the same.)

if what you’re saying is that global bleed chance modifiers from other skills (similar to the effect i described from acid flask) are not applying to your poison chance, then that would be a bug or at least unintended behavior, and warrants a post in the bug reports forum, imo.

Hello, this is what I am talking about. I am trying to inform you about the bug, That global bleeding chance is not applying for the node which says “bleed chance from all sources is converted to poison”! How many messages should I write to inform the Last Epoch developers? Thanks for suggestion, I am going to write it in the bug reports forum. It looks like “feedback and suggestions” are not about the bugs.

sorry, it seems like my earlier reply annoyed you. i’m just trying to make sure i understand the problem you have and that you understand the systems at play. i’m not a dev, just another player who likes to help other people. the devs do read the forum regularly, but they don’t (and can’t be expected to) reply to every thread.

to reiterate what Fushuan pointed out earlier, Hail of Arrows does not hit by default (unless you take the Skystrike node), and doesn’t apply any ailments. it doesn’t matter how much chance you have or convert, it just won’t work. the exception is when you take the Venom Arrows node, which at 5 points guarantees to apply 1 poison stack per second. note that this is not the same as poison chance which can only apply to hits but rather, the skill applies up to 1 stack of poison per second over its duration. without this node or Skystrike, you have no way to apply poisons with Hail of Arrows.

if you have taken Skystrike, i believe it only makes the skill hit a single time. (i haven’t played with the skill myself, so i’m not sure, but i believe that’s what i’ve heard from others. i apologize in advance if i’m mistaken about this). since Hail of Arrows has a duration that lasts about the same time as a normal poison instance, it makes sense that you would not see poison stacks ticking after the skill ends. in Shrukn’s video, since he has 5/5 Venom Arrows, but not Skystrike, the skill is applying one poison per second. i’m not sure why there was not a lingering poison on one of his attacks, (that maybe be another bug, or just a visual error) but that is why the change in bleed chance did not make a difference.

i can understand when things don’t work as you expect, it can be really frustrating. but that’s why the game is in beta, for us to give bug reports and feedback and help the devs track down things that aren’t working (or working too well :laughing:). hopefully either i’ve helped clear up a misunderstanding on your part, or, if it is a bug, helped you get some attention on it. :slight_smile:

that is correct. :slight_smile:

Sorry my friend, its just the first time when I am typing in a game forum, I thought you are one of those developers and able to fix that bug. So I was trying to make the game better. If I said something wrong I apologize about that. I am pretty sure there is a bug. I am going to write it to bug report section. Thank you for all your help you did for me.
And one more question for you. How did you know that the damage of Hail of arrows doesn’t hit monsters. Are you sure about that?

Hail Of Arrows is considered a “Damage over Time” Skill, which inherent, it does not hit.

This is a fundamental mechanic in Last Epoch: Damage over Time does not hit.

If you hover over any skill, the tooltip tells you such fundamental informations with the blue tags.

no problem, you haven’t done anything wrong! i’m happy to help. :slight_smile:

as Heavy pointed out, we can tell the skill doesn’t “hit” because of the tag, “damage over time”. in most cases, the difference between damage over time skills and skill which “hit” is very clear. for example, the primalist class has “maelstrom” which causes damage over time to nearby enemies. it’s very clear from the way it looks and appears to work that it doesn’t “hit” them in the way that striking them with a weapon or a projectile does.

Hail of Arrows is unique, because visually, it seems to hit the enemy many times as the arrows rain down. the reason it doesn’t actually hit that many times is most likely to keep the skill balanced. if it were able to hit as many times as the arrows fall on the enemy, it would be the single most effective way to apply ailments to a boss. ailment stacking is very common and easy in this game, so this would give the player way too much damage for little investment. by making the skill a “damage over time” skill, and only giving it the ability to hit once per use, they can make sure the skill deals a reasonable amount of damage without breaking the ailment system.

reading the tags on a skill, in the way Heavy described, can help prevent this sort of confusion. as long as you know that “damage over time” skills don’t usually have a “hit”.

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