Some rough idea that follows the good and bad perks philosophy route of passive skills:
Add a node that grants one revival in that timeline/quest for a certain cost (permanent debuff in either drop chance/characters stats/etc).
That node could be a more difficult node to unlock containing either a special boss encounter /environmental mechanics+threats/waves/etc.
Please keep replies on topic and respectful. I have removed some that werenât.
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Hey there,
first off, just to be sure, you did not understand or fully grasp the full extend of the new system? Is that correct?
Do you already have a better understanding on how the new system works?
Just to be clear, I genuienly want to know if you understand the new system.
Because if not, it might not be the case of you not liking the new system, but rather not fully understanding how it works.
And this would be good feedback, since I think there are quite a few player who do not understand the MoF System and thatâs something EHG can work on.
Improving tutorials and guidance a bit.
I just want to point out a few things from your OP, feel free to elaborate on some poitns where you might already knwo a little bit more, compared to when you did the OP.
The new system has 10 timeliens currently, each Echo Web has finite nubmer of nodes, if you literally decide to discover them all.
At some point everything will be âblockedâ by Shade Of Orobyss Nodes.
Once you do defeat a Shade Of Orobyss, your entire Echo Web for that Echo Resets and you get an increased corruption value, based on the depth of the Shade that you defeated.
There are also 3 more âspecialâ nodes that you can use to manipulate your echo web, which btw cannot âfailâ, you can repeat them as often as you want without any punishment:
- Beacons: Reveal a larger radius of new echoes around it, once completed
- Vessel Of Memory: Resets every already completed echo, to be able to redo them and gain their reward again
- Vessel Of Chaos: Rerolls all unfinished echoes into a new random echo rewards
You only loose a small portion of your Timeline Stability, when you fail a Quest Echo.
If you fail a regular echo, you only loose itâs guaranteed rewards, but no Timeline Stability. You still receive the regular chest, that also scaled with enemies killed during the echo.
I donât want this to de-rail into yet another PoE discussion, but LE basically does not have a single system in palce, where you actual loose progress, except the Timeline Stability loss, when you fail a Quest Echo, which is very minor and you need to redo 1-2 echoes.
You can also do enough timeline stability to have more timeline stability unlocked than needed, this way you could re-run quest echoes a few times in a row, in case you fail them sometimes.
But as I said, other than that, LE basically only takes away potential rewards.
IMO this is a very fair and rewarding system, especailly because you are in full controll over the difficulty of the monolith system.
If there is a node with a particular exciting reward (for example Exalted Relics), there are ways and strategies, to make it as easy as possible, if you really want to do thsi echo, but you fear dying and loosing the rewards.
If you already accumulated hard modifiers, you can do a few other echoes with easier modifers to let the hard modifiers run out or do special echeos like Beacons, Vessels and Quest Echoes to let modifiers run out.
And then you can very savely do the echo with the very desired rewards savely.
Regarding your initial point, that you could re-run the same timeliens over and over again, this is still the case and itâs even better than before, since resetting the echo web and killing the timeline boss are 2 seperate system, that are not completely interconnected.
If you unlock all 3 quest echoes and do them, you can re-farm the timeline stabiltiy needed to do the boss again, much mroe effectively, then the run before that, because on an already developed timeline, the echoes you can run give more timelien stability (the farther away from the starting point, the more time line stability they grant)
Again, I donât want to devalue any of you feedback, but I do have a very strong feeling, that you are misjudging how the system works and thus giving feedback on false assumptions.
I am very happy you explain every part of the system in detail to you, if you want that.
Because I think this would be the worst possible case: Someone quitting LE, based on assumptiosn that are not true.
And EHG could definitely learn from your feedback this way.
5 Likes
Hey mate, thanks for the detailed explanation on a buncha stuff here. I appreciate that. What you mention has actually queued my interest up. I did not know most of this, and it does not seem very obvious or present anywhere to have obtained this information.
Im confident reading this , that i will fire LE up later this evening and see what i can see. 
Thanks again.
PS : The only information i have about this game, is from the in game âgâ guide. I dont do youtube, or streamer stuffs, i just play. I know its a handicap to myself in the modern world of gaming, but, well, im just old and stubborn. I like it that way.
Considering how great ALL the rest of the game was and the details you have left, ââyouâre doing it wrongââ comes to mind now. old and stubborn, sheesh, some peoples.
(Smacks Self)
Iâve also updated the post Title to reflect my overall take on this new outcome.
Good day everyone.
4 Likes
Now my small piece. In this event of failing a node you lose not only the âguaranteedâ reward but also the stability it would have given you. That means that when you do it again just to get to the node beyond it, you get no stability for completing it either. These two together are my main complaint with the MOF.
I also am not a fan of loosing XP when you die, why do some think this is necessary? You donât gain experience on how to proceed when you die, but rather forget what you already learned?
Iâm very much happy with the improvements EHG has made thus far and their roadmap and am greatly looking forward to the finished product.
You are welcome.
I genuienly care, for people giving a brilliant game like Last Epoch a fair chance.
And itâs disheartening to see you having a bad time with what LE currently offers.
Some of it might be because you donât have the full picture, but nontheless everythink you said here definitely has a lot of value to it.
This endgame system is definitely on the more compelx side and itâs easy to âjust play echoesâ, but if you truely wan to master the system and use all the mechanics to itâs fullest, there is not enough guidance to any explanation within the game.
I am really glad you give it a fair second chance.
But donât hesitate to continue giving critisim or negative feedback. Feedback of any kind if appreciated by msot of the people within the community and especially by the devs.
I jsut forgot to mentiomn the game guide, but now you said you read it already?
Is the Section about Monolith Of Fate not sufficient to understand the system?
That would be really good feedback too.
There is nothing fwrong with expressing negatives thoughts about any game.
And teh devs appreciate all kinds of feedback. The most important thing is how and in which manner you deliver feedback.
You what you did was perfect.
Very constructive, but you could definitely feel that you care about the game.
2 Likes
Yeah you are correct, I forgot to explicitly state, that I count the Timeline Stability gain to the guaranteed rewards.
None the less IMO itâs still a way better system then taking something away, that you already earned.
I am a big fan an exp penalty, to make just make the last 10-15 levels way harder to achieve.
This does not gatekeep any builds, but makes the higher levels way more âspecialâ and it will feel like you really achieved something, when you manage to get there.
But I donât wanna de-rail the thread here. There are plenty of exp penalty and general rewards threads about that.
Well, about the game guide. I like it. It is very detailed and informative, and aesthetically pleasing to read BUT, its possible, that amongst all the information i have been absorbing, amongst all the different topics, that i have overlooked this information if it is presented in detail as you laid out.
I will definitely have another look over everything as i do rather enjoy this game immensely, well⌠the entire ride to the end game was just fun as hell. It has all the right ingredients.
Either way, im glad i came posted, and glad someone took the time to reply in depth. It is nice to be a little social, sometimes. Cheers.
2 Likes
I donât have the exact wording for most of the MoF Stuff in my head right now, but i guess itâs not as detailed.
But the whole Monolith Sections is very good as far as I remember.
Yeah, absolutely.
I loveconnecting with people and helping people. Thatâs what drives me and was the main reason I started streaming.
Sharing all my knowledge and exchange opinions, regardless of agreeing or disagreeing.
Donât hestiate to come back here and report you experiences, after you tested the system more in-depth.
And if you have more questionâs just ask.
Have a nice evening enjoying more Last Epoh 
Same. IMO, XP loss on death is a terrible mechanic that crosses the line between âdifficultâ and âpunishingâ, and only belongs in an ARPG (if at all) as a feature of optional, enhanced difficulty modes.
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Well, been playing a couple hours this evening, and once again, its back to pure fun. Game is definitely friggin great. Thanks for the info, and support guys.
`Kill Kill Loot Loot
Until next time.
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I think it is perfectly legitimate to hear feedback, acknowledge the experience, and then try to figure out what exactly caused the experience, instead of accepting a gut reaction as the conclusion. I simply suggested that maybe the more relevant aspect of his frustration was dying repeatedly.
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Just as a side node: When I first played the new Mono I want to throw somethig against a wall because I was unable to find the quest echos on the grid :D. I was almost loosing it and about to ask on discord when I clicked the quest. Felt pretty stupid after :D. Iâm sure there is or even was some kind of tutorial for it or something like that but many things in the monolith arenât that onbvious to begin with.
They could probably do with a narrative-based tutorial introduction to how the Mono system works, for sure. I found it fairly intuitive, but iâve also got 20 years of ARPGs and gaming in general behind me.
I made the jump from old Mono to new Mono and was like âblah blah let me playyyy!â and the map changes didnât help either. I donât even look how many years of ARPG gaming I have under my belt because I might feel old after :D. Sadly it didnât help if you approach Mono like a Bonobo as I did :D.
I donât know. Where do you draw the line? Do have the game pause/interrupt every time a new thing happens aâla Clippy âHi, I see youâre taking damage from an enemy, would you like an explanationâ?
No, no, no pause button. I proudly took a triple wengari spire shot when I stopped and decided hey this will be a nice time to take a skill point that I did not really need to complete the map, but I got this flashing icon blaring at me to do something with it⌠SMACK⌠{RESPAWN} Cause of death Wengari Spire type of damage Cold⌠with a snicker from the devâs watching that death come 200km away.
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Hey now you got me started.
Now I want a character in the game, inspired by Marvin from âThe Hitchhikerâs Guide to the Galaxyâ. A despondent, depressed veteran traveler, who has been through all these time travel shenanigans time after time after time, and sarcastically comments on your efforts with âhelpfulâ tips and tutorials while insulting you and the game.
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Mikeâs âHot hot hot!â phrase on Marvin?
1 Like