Game Feedback (from a designer)

Introduction

Greetings,

I would like to start by saying, I wish the best for the team and this project. The quality of this game is exceptional, it rivals the quality of blizzard teams. This game is capable of being the next league of legends (in terms of success). While I am uncertain of how it will get to that point, I strongly believe that.

I would love to say that this post is my opinion shaped by twenty-six years’ experience as a designer and a lifetime of dedication to gaming. This is not intended in any way to offend people and a specific part of it may come off harsh but please understand I choose my wording with precision and intention for a desired outcome and effect.

Graphics Quality SCORE: 4.75/5.0

Requirements
The games, gameplay requirements are exceptional. This subsection is absolutely perfect and I would not change anything or recommend any changes to it.

Post Processing Effects
This subsection is near perfect score. The only small improvement I can see here is the option to enable bloom via settings and applying blood to many of the spells and effects. I know some designers do not like bloom, but I love it and think it looks great. Go wild with it.

Lightning
The lightning of the game near perfect levels. The only point of feedback here, Is I would recommend looking into what the poe2 team is doing. They have created zones that are absolutely pitch-black outside of melee range and have a wall of sorts that is a light source that shines into a circle around the player (but not out). This provides a surprise when people face plant into a big elite back. This could be a game changing move for ARPG, or it could be a game killer causing frustration. I am uncertain of it and will need to playtest this too form a more solid opinion. I thought it was worth mentioning,

Game Systems SCORE: 3.0/5.0

Progression System
This area gained a high score. I am personally not a fan of the layout of the game in terms of how scenes are presented to the player base. The feel is overly mobile in nature, though i am uncertain if there is plans for cross-platform gameplay. I would highly recommend you do not take that route. Its a route which significantly burdens the team and reduces a products quality. You would be better off developing a standalone version for mobile or console platforms.
Crafting System
The crafting system in the game gains a fairly high score. I would say that some of the system is not intuitive enough. The major point of this feedback is that intuitively when I go through the game I expect low end gear to be useless later but that is not at all the case. It happens to be that as you progress you get more options. This is exceptional, however it needs a way of presenting that more accurately in the UI.

Examples are low armor items and high armor items. You would naturally think that the higher armor values are more ideal, however it’s not the case. I would recommend some UI based notification that says something like “light armor” or “heavy armor”. This way its made clear that this item is not trash later.

I would also like to add that crafting should grant ranges on them for forging potential not based on quality. It seems to me like some items have a huge range, possibly based on quality and I am not a fan of this.

I would also add that unique seemly are amazing or absolutely useless. I would recommend making them not feel so negative early game. From what I understand, the forge in dungeons is a way to fix this but its providing a major negative feeling to the game.

Social Systems
The lack of clan systems is an understandable thing considering the release of the games online option just recently. Its however an extremely important thing, if not the most important thing. I cannot express how extremely important this is. Most people think it’s just “important”. If we put this into body parts, clans are the brain, heart, and soul of
the game. It’s not an important thing. Its life itself for a game. Its extremely important that this is added as a top priority after stability at this point. nothing in the game will be as important as this, ever, for the entire history of the game.

There are some improvements that can be made to the friends list. A check box option to delete people in a mass is a good feature, one that many games lack. Tooltips that players can set up is a good move. Some sort of activity display so you know who you play with the most, would be another amazing qol option.

Class Design SCORE: 2.0/5.0

Class Direction
This is one of two areas of the game is going to get some major feedback and criticism. Since I am a systems designer class design to me is an extremely ocd topic. I have to say that I find classes generally just changing their flavor rather than their mechanical operation, all the while not changing flavors where it needs to be changed. Example is that tornado cannot be cold, or hurricane cannot be lightning. I would love it if hurricane had an option to be permanent. I find spamming a button to keep it up obnoxious. In this area of the game classes need more mechanical changes rather than just elemental changes. I would recommend first the elemental change, then the swap mechanically. an example of this would be first hurricane changes to lightning and then it can be casted at a location.

G/UI Design SCORE: 3.5/5.0

Overall
Overall, the GUI just needs some QOL improvements. it’s a high score.

Menu
The game needs a menu bar that toggles hide/show when a button (esc?) is pushed. It’s hard trying to navigate all the hotkeys.

Crafting
This area gets moderately low scoring.
The GUI around crafting needs some improvements. Adding tooltips in the inventory window when hovering over the materials area for crafting for each icon so it’s clearer what they are and do. I was very confused about these things at the start of the game.

There are some very annoying toggle & toggle-deadlock issues going on in last epoch. I would recommend avoiding on click-toggle gui features in unity and shifting to a custom script to handle toggling. It will prevent the deadlock related issues.

The biggest issue with this and my complaint about crafting gui is the red “scroll of doom”. That dam thing loves to stay in the upgrade spot and has an issue deadlocking itself as the choice upgrade scroll unless a player slots and un-slots an item before closing the gui panel. please fix this… I have trashed so many good items because of this.

Another major point of improvement for GUI, is the improvements to the layouts of the blessings. I would recommend removing the dropdown list. Its tacky, and a big chore from a gameplay side of things. It needs to be changed to just icons you can click that sort through each blessing type, or just mesh all the blessings below the drop-in area.

The future of the game.
Yesterday, The lead systems designer for the d4 team and I were talking about last epoch. We are both very worried for its future. This is largely due to the upcoming changes to d4. Its a strong belief that I have that unless last epoch has some way to stand out in a significant way, the game may not live the upgrades to d4 and the release of last epoch.

I am not sure how to get to the destination of last epoch being the new league of legends, but I think the game has a very strong possibility of it. When I was watching some friends stream gameplay, I initially had a poor (2/5) review of the game. Since playing it, it has improved to 3/5, and the resolution of the above things would put it at a 4 or 5/5.0.

What I originally was thinking was a more lore-based approach to the game, but I am not sold on if it’s the way to go. At the moment, I find it worth mentioning as an option, but what I will say is if you can find ways to add esports like competitive gameplay mode in here, we’d definitely have a strong chance at that league future.

I wish you the best. I will be here to provide feedback as time go’s on. I hope this initial post will help open things for consideration.

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By the way,
I forgot to mention my utter and complete hatred for the fact that dungeons have keys on them. This is a design choice that is absolutely horrid. It has killed other games in the past. Dungeons should not be ever limited in this way. They are the primary focal point of grouping, and this leads to utter destruction of any social interaction being that the majority of players are pve-focused. I cannot express how insane this choice is, or how destructive it is to social interaction.

This one choice can kill this game.

No comment on the rest of your feedback. But this, this I can agree with.

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I think requiring keys for dungeons is not that bad, they are pretty plentiful. What is in my opinion game breaking is that you need to repeat the entire dungeon if you fail at the boss. That is the reason I quit last time, will probably be the reason I quit this time and I imagine will be the same for a lot of people.
So requiring keys is not that bad since people don’t want to run dungeons anyway since they are extremely punishing when you make a mistake.

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The entire reason for online games is for social interaction. At a face value level, anything that invalidates that interaction ultimately invalidates the very reason for online gameplay modes in LE.

Fundamentally, anything that limits the core aspects of gameplay (which are dungeons for pve, and basic pvp ) is a very bad move. Keys are one of the features that do this. This is not a new concept, it has been around for a long time. It’s been well known in the industry for a long time.

Huh… there’s guilds in PoE which does… nothing, apart from more stash tabs? My guild is only my IRL friends, so it could pretty much just be the in-game friends list… There’s no mandatory reason to be in a Guild in PoE at all, yet, it’s the most succesfull ARPG of all.

So, I understand guilds are a major part of the game for MMOs, but they’re surely not necessary in aRPGs, and even less important in a game with full-offline mode.

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This, HAHAHAHA is all I have to say.
I’m sorry, but surely you jest, D4 is never going to stand out after how much they charge for DLC/Cosmetics and then they ram those cosmetic sales in your face with every email, loading screen, etc.
Not to mention that D4 has the poorest skill options out of any Diablo game, heck Diablo 3 felt better with its options, at least it was fun to roll the same character every season just to see if you could be better.
again, HAHAHAHA D4 = trash tier game, except graphics and cutscenes.

*edit, WE NEED CLANS, I AGREE

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This is not the forum to debate such things but i will say that people need to stop watching streamers. Streamers intentionally provide negative views of a game for views and money. Their opinions are motivated by self-interests, not the betterment of a game.

Also, You should not parrot things like this ignorant of the fact that the Mount packages value is largely the currency inside of. Maybe educate yourself instead of being a sheep.

Firstly, dont assume im parroting, these are my own views, as I have over 1k hours in D3

I don’t actively watch streamers, I pre-ordered D4 hoping it would be an amazing game, it isnt, it is trash, its skills feel weak and boring and I went back to D3 after playing for about 100 hours. I even went back on new season and wasnt impressed.

Secondly, you are ignorant if you just assume everyone is parroting and not thinking for themselves, I never once mentioned mount packages, I mentioned cosmetics, which considering the base game cost $109AUD and each item costs around $30-40AUD I find it rude and insulting, they put more effort into charging people more money for cosmetics than they did gameplay aspects. Heck D3 atleast you had cool cosmetics for free, easy transmog and a fun repeatable.

lastly, im not debating, im stating facts, i’ve gamed for about the last 30 years(try to remember not everyone is a child), and considerring i put more time into this game whilst it was in beta, then I did D4, this game hands down wins. heck i put more time into Grim Dawn…

*Edit for context
LastEpoch = $51AUD.(time played 58 hours this week, 260 total)
Diablo4 = $109.95AUD. (time played 63 hours)

First of all, these values are researched extremely well… The price point of $15 (on sale) to $25 (new release) is absolutely an acceptable rate. Its been the standard in the industry for years. League has been a great source for really showing everyone what are good prices are for sets/cosmetics.

Second, You most definitely are parroting, because the mount package has a value of around $60 in currency and the mount makes up around $5 of the total price of the package. This is measured against the fact that mounts are generally the same price point of cosmetics in d4 (15-25). I would also add that this is not a standard item meaning its not even in the general shop its in a subcategory that is intended as package deals…

If you played d4 you’d know these things.

I would also add that d4’s cosmetics are interchangeable. This means you can mix and max pieces from any set or free items in the game. Something that you cannot do in LE (as for example). In LE gear sets are 15$. Which means that you gain a massive amount of value and reusability from the other $0-10.

First of all your played time (quoted above) of 63 hours is very impressive. It speaks values for the creditbility of your parroted attack on the d4 pricing.

Second, LE Intentionally or ignorantly underpriced its game. Either way its fine. If its the first, its totally fine because they are an indy studio and do not have the massive greed of investors, or the massive overhead budget that the ~1600 developers have on the d4 team.
If it was due to ignorance, its to be expected. blizzard has an amazing marketing team that is really top notch with pricing and those types of things.

Either way friend your position is totally wrong and i would encourage you to stop spouting what you hear just because you hear it, especially when its ignorant.

Again, youre saying im parroting, except i never mentioned the mount package i didnt even look into it because i quit before it got release, im am going off what i’ve played and know.

But your attack to say i am parroting and just going off what I hear is very fanboy idealistic of you.

ill make this clear, i dont watch streamers that play these games because i dont want spoilers, i also dont follow build guides or do anything of the sort. what I am going off is the fact that if i buy a $30-50AUD cosmetic on D4, it is for that class only and not interchangeable, unlike D3, so you interchangeability is a load of BS, as it is class specific.
LE purchaseable cosmetics are not locked in, making them reusable forever to some degree.

as for pricing for this game, it is definitely underpriced, which was smart, but they made it more affordable and accessible to more players, which is good because they will recoup there money and losses with cosmetics.
but when Diablo comes in and i want to buy two cosmetic sets and am locked into the class specificity and it will cost me as much as the game did itself, i quit, i am not going to support a money making giant that gave up on gameplay.

like i said, when d4 failed, I went back to D3, its a much better game. not parroting, dont hate the company(well i do nowadays as they gave up on being for the gamer as much as Razer did)

please go back to being a fanboy elsewhere, because what you are trying to spout is a point of view and not factual.

*edit, i have muted this channel, i wont be back, you’re blatant attempt to spout anyone who speaks negatively is parroting puts you in an echo chamber where you wont listen to reason or anyone else, that is helpful nor does it promote positivity, just idiocy.
again this game needs clans, i agree, but as to whether this game will fail, you are wrong, this game will continue to grow as D4 declines.

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This says it all.
While it’s nice that you wrote this post but you don’t have to worry, the game really won’t sink to the level of Blizzard and D4 with the most predator mechanics and “grind” mechanics that crush their loyal fans in the shackles of feeling that if they log out of the game and stop playing it they will miss their 200% chance of something…lol

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Stop trolling. I have like 80 hours in this game and i’m still not max level. I am a competitive player. I would of maxed out two toons by this point and fully geared them. The grind in this game is significantly higher than d4. and i have not even started the end game gear grind yet. Please dont troll like that, it just makes you look foolish.

I have 80 hours with full build and almost nothing to do bcs i do 300k -400k per hit and run empowered for fun with oneshoting every single mob in legacy online…your grind sounds like skill issue :slight_smile: git gud i guess

  • I have 20 stashes tabs …20 …again 20… And it doesnt make nuclear reaction

Diablo 4’s grind is significantly lower than LE. There is a reason why 5.8 million players are playing it, and not LE. Numbers dont lie.

You mean that grind where you need to throw items and say them goodbye from your inventory even if that items are needed because other items…dont be pathethic pls …reskins of models every season, template previews in shop of skins… Lack of support of community with any usable function like loot filter for years…of course d4 is much worse not even in grind but at literally all. I will not feed troll. Bye.

I haven’t read all of the posting you two have had but I feel like comparing a playerbase such as Diablo to a new IP is kind of not a good comparison. Diablo has been well established for many years with a following, as Last Epoch has not. Only thing similar is the genre which can be compared such as systems, mechanics, etc… Sorry, had to say something about it lol

No, you are absolutely right. It’s a new IP. That is a great thing. The investors are overly greedy and won’t allow innovation. We need games like LE that are from new studio’s. We need those studio’s to exist and thrive so we can get that innovation, so we the players can benefit from it, and so those of us that are designers can learn from it.

The point i was making is that diablo (4) is extremely well backed by very established data. Players are running around spouting what they hear on stream clueless that its all just attacks for views and money. they are claims that are baseless and outright ignorant.

We need LE to learn and grow from the data, not pay attention to mindless repetition. The objective is to make LE the best it can be, not diablo 4. it gets to that point by looking at what diablo 4 does right, and learning from what it does wrong, and that is how we make LE great; and personally i believe the next league of legends.

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Not all of us, albeit i am small i got almosr no subs. Bigger ones, most certainly

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Yeah what you have said makes total sense. And I agree they should learn from failures and success from other competitors in the genre. Also I do agree that it is good for the industry to have competition to push innovation forward. So many games have used the same mechanics and systems over and over again only with a different coat of paint. But also it’s a big risk to try and make something new and fresh that isn’t battle tested. So yeah it’s good for D4 as well as LE in that regard.

It seems like the developers at EHG are pretty active online in forums, reddit as well as discord. So that is a plus since they have personally answered my questions in the past as well. I can only hope they keep this path up and make the game even better than it is now.

I am also optimistic for D4’s future as a gamer but I don’t feel worried for LE’s continued support.