Future boss fight objectives/goals/mechanics/ideas

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I was just watching this video, and part of the way through I started wondering if any of these suggestions could be implemented in LE’s boss fights. Near the end he says something I really like, which is that games have enough mechanics, and battles don’t need new mechanics to be fun or interesting.

Right now I think all of LE’s main boss fights rely on telegraphing and positioning, and I’m not a fan of timed events, but there are other options he mentions. Two of them are protection and putting things where they need to be. I think I good example of both of those shows up in PoE, Act 6 area called The Beacon. You have to “protect” statues as they’re moved into place before you can light the Beacon. You have to stay within range of each statue as it moves, and if you step outside the range the statue just stops moving until you get back into range.

It’s not bad because it’s in the campaign, so you can overlevel your character if you need to, which may leave it being boring to some people (it just takes time to complete rather than skill), but sometimes that can be a nice change of pace from constantly having to be dodging six or seven different attacks that can each one-shot you. And I like that stepping out of range doesn’t cause the statues to start moving backwards, or start a countdown timer (like the current omen windows do). If you need to step outside it’s going to make the encounter take longer, but it’s also not going to penalize you.

Going back to the video … I’m intrigued by the “both sides win” idea, and how that could be incorporated into a fight in LE. IMO he doesn’t give a great example of what that actually looks like in a battle. One example he gives is of a battle that’s won while one of your team members die, and the other is a fight where you have two objectives and you only succeed at one. Having the other party sound an alarm isn’t a “win” for the other party, IMO.

Requiring a party to split across a map is interesting, but not really relevant in solo play, unless you have an NPC accompany you that then has to split off for part of the battle, which could be doable. Maybe you have to fight with the NPC to get them to a point where they’ll be safe, then leave them to go achieve some other objective.

His reference to protecting the buildings in Into the Breach is also interesting because theoretically the buildings could take some damage before you lose the fight, so there could be win conditions between perfection and where the things you were protecting can say, “It’s okay, we’ve survived and we can rebuild from this.”

Some stuff to think about.

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I think from my ARPG experience in Poe1/2 and some early Diablo and D2 and now LE and some Grim Dawn is mechanics end up not mattering and positioning ends up not mattering and telegraphing ends up not matter.

In all of these games you end up getting great gear and are either able to tank the telegraphed moves, do so much damage you don’t really move and mechanics become pointless.

This season we had the insanely laughable shadow rend skill introduced and had more 1 shot “unbugged” uberroth fights than ever seen in LE’s history. In past seasons most of the 1 second insta kills were from bugged interactions and this season it was from the teams inability to play test or have any grasp on how their skills will actually function when put in the hands of players with more smarts than themselves.

In general most builds end up non bugged and slapping him down in sub 1 minute every season which is fine. In poe2 right now my Titan at level 90 was doing all pinnacles/content/hardest juiced maps and it takes 3-5 seconds on the bosses generally because my damage stacks a bit but for the majority of players 5 seconds ends up being around the standard.

I didn’t watch your video but I did spend a lot of years playing D&D on a table with a group of fellow nerds. I played MMORPGs and RPGs as well as ARPGs - this genre isn’t the same and it’s more about speed, stacking crazy damage and killing bosses quickly, not with 1 button tap - rogue’s just fucking stupid and makes me mad.

EHG / LE really doesn’t give a flying fu fu about party play and that’s been shown since I started playing in the fact there is still a chat bug thats been here since then, 1.5 years and still not fixed, unreal. There is no benefit to playing in a party. Loot is for the host only apart from havoc runes on Uber. It’s pretty underwhelming overall.

Last season we did lots of group plays to farm the same map over and over and over for amber and imprints but they nerfed imprints so now none of us bother.

I am not trying to be a dick or dismissive of your post btw I just dont think they’ll take any of it on board.

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But yet that’s all your comment was. The entirety of it.

I can appreciate everything you said, but all I can think to ask are, “Maybe you should start your own thread about those topics.” And, “But do you have anything positive to contribute to this thread?”

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I was literally giving you my personal experience of playing a lot of ARPGS and then I said these guys won’t implement your change I also never said your ideas had no value or sucked, they’re great ideas but EHG won’t implement them because they don’t like party play and hey lets face it this is an ARPG and your ideas seem suited to other, slower genres.

Sorry you’re butt hurt but if it makes you feel better they don’t give a rats about feedback forums either or the game wouldn’t be in such a sad state.

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That must be because they changed it. It used to do just that not that long ago. PoE was the main reason why we have puzzle mechanics in boss fights and they should be always stay infamous for doing that.

If you’re talking any other boss, then yeah, you can just out-DPS them and not care. If you’re talking pinnacle bosses, then no.

Especially because GGG likes to introduce invulnerability phases with puzzle mechanics in it for you to dodge/run into/whatever.

And GD introduced Sunder mechanics to their pinnacle bosses (which only a few could AFK, especially crate).

And D2 has the Uber Tristram, which only a single class can solo, let alone afk.

Dunno about D3/D4, but those games were always targetted at casuals. “Bosses” where always a joke there.

As for the idea itself of strategic fights, I personally dislike that. It’s not what I want in a game like this. Just like I hate puzzle mechanics in a game like this. Just like I would hate QTEs in a game like this.

I’m fine with telegraphs that I have to dodge out of the way. But I don’t want my fights to become strategic. I’d play No Rest For The Wicked if I wanted that.

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I am currently playing poe2 yes you get a tiny phase where they go invuln - arbiter of ash and divinity both have them then regen their hp - first phase 3-5 seconds, second phase just as quick. Some bosses have these but don’t regen, even quicker. You can 100% out dps them all, every single one of them and I can happily join you in a party and show you with my curentl Titan. There are no Puzzles or mechanics that play into any thing you’ve mentioned unless you are meaning Maven from Poe1 which has a simon says phase. Right now in the state of poe2 just go on youtube and type in any single build you can think of. They have made EVERY build really fricking strong to the point no one is complaining about buffing them and a few streamers whinging about how easy the game is. Give me your current poeninja link and I can tell you why you’re having issues with dps and bosses if you’re even currently playing.

My comments above cover - Arbiter of Ash (he drops before fire rings or need to dodge then you can kill him before those things happen after regen), Divinity, Kulemak, King of Mist, The Abberation, Xesht, Bodach etc - every one of them, every phase (well Xesht just dies no phasing stunlock/pop/dead) there is no phase or boss that requires me to move at any stage or that lasts longer than a few seconds and as mentioned I will happily carry you through any fight or give you some div if you need it for items. But I feel like you aren’t currently playing or you’d be aware of the current state and how happy everyone is and how many builds are popping up even 2 months in new builds are coming out, its insane.

DPS and tankyness wins. Mechanics and movement do not matter. Uber has 1 movement you need to move for, well some people. Others kill him before it happens - the triple slam but my point about this was some builds can tank that and others abuse 1 shot which insta kills him. My ethical warpath dodges but I just go in circles around him constantly hitting him - no dodge rolls or special movements just a 49 year old with middle aged man reactions killing him in around a minute.

As you mentioned - strategy and long fights, save those for WoW etc. I used to have to watch videos and study fight mechanics for once a week big ass raids as offtank druid bear with an American guild, lol. ARPG is basically French for “this shiz sposed to be quick y’all” - fuzzy on that translation :stuck_out_tongue:

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Maybe it was and I just forgot? It’s been years since I’ve played PoE.

I’m fine with them in theory, but the current Omen boss (the one in their own echo, I forget what it’s called) is just SUPER &^^&( annoying. It’s like playing a bullet hell boss, and I can never tell what’s going to kill me because for some reason the same attack of theirs won’t seem to do any damage to me at all early in the fight, and then later that same attack will oneshot me. Especially the ground effects. There are times I can stand in something, look directly at my HP, and see that it’s not going down, and then other times when I just barely brush it and I’m instantly killed. And don’t even get me started on that one attack that covers the ground effects. Even after luring those orbs into the star-shaped peaks there are still two or three other ground effects that you can’t control the placement of.

As with anything, it can be overdone. Of course I don’t want have to play chess inside a boss battle. I gave the PoE example of The Beacon because it’s both relatively moderate/forgiving and interesting, even if it’s only because it’s making you do something different than either standing there facetanking or needing to run around through bullet hell, and without really being punishing if you need to step outside the circle for a bit. For me it’s just a nice bit of variation. In fact it’s not that different from the current Omen echoes where you kick off all three at once. It’s pretty much like that, but you move around a little bit.

Yeah, that’s not what I was suggesting.

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I was actually talking about PoE1. PoE2 balance changes wildly with every new season. And they’re letting the game get away and become PoE1 but prettier and on crack, which is disappointing to me, as I had much more fun with the initial state of the game.

PoE2 is currently more zoom zoom than PoE1 is.

So I was referring to stuff like Maven and her Simon Says, Zarokh and you having to chase the orbs or whatever they are, etc. That’s the annoying stuff that’s not avoidable in PoE1, except maybe for a build or two.

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H&S games are power fantasies. You gobble up levels and gear and kill everything in split seconds. No rest for the wicked may be different because it’s a “soulslike” and I don’t play it because I dislike the world building dearly. From every other H&S game since D1 and Loki up to today this holds true.

I don’t think it’ll be fun to give the bosses plot armor. At a certain point after a player invested a certain ammount of time and effort bosses should fall without some stupid backround mechanic that drags the fight along as if the player has far worse gear.