nice try diddy
Poe 2 is legit the worst game out there, its just an online dark souls, I really dont understand where the fun is in perma dodging and dealing literally no dmg, like which boss should take 10min when there are seasons in the game and ur whole progress becomes obsolote anyways once the next season starts
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Yes, agreed there, 100%
Though mind as well… that’s leaning into a different genre. The focus of Hack’N’Slash is to work around hordes of enemies, ensuring you can stand up to them by damaging enough or sustaining enough damage to avoid dropping down.
In PoE 2 GGG tried to include the souls-like elements (which is the highly mechanical aspect of ARPG combat reward mechanisms) into it… and it utterly failed because they’re not combinable.
If you want fast-paced combat you abstain from complex mechanical interactions as they can’t be upkept reliably. So it feels ‘bad’ since it’s out of the players hands to deal with enemies as situations are plentyfold.
On the counterside you get slow methodical combat like ‘No Rest for the Wicked’, but then you can’t have many enemies at once, it would overwhelm the character immediately after all, but it’s highly engaging.
What can be done on the other hand is CC-heavy combat, managing the amount of enemies actually coming towards you, causing highly mobility focused combat. GD does a decent amount of that with a middling amount of enemies but high amounts of movement, which is why that combat system feels ‘good’. PoE focuses on offensive gameplay… much like LE. Damage being your defense, lateral movement your fallback option if that fails for tankier enemies. PoE 2 fails entirely since it’s a miss-designed system for the current balance, 0.1 was also damage focused defense.
in which world is poe 2 fun?
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Btw, density matters too — in POE 2 it’s still too high imho, but in LE it’s just crazy. After LE, I can feel that lower density feels better, at least for me.
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Yes, of course.
I don’t like Soul-like games because combat is too linear there, I want more random chaotic elements so I would need to asses them and change my plans all the time, random monsters to appear. Will see what GGG will make out of POE 2, but even for now, for me personally, it feels interesting to play. I know all players keep saying it’s awful, but for me it’s like this. It’s funny btw, that everyone is saying how awful POE 2 is, how good LE is, but still more people playing POE 2 
(considering standalone/Xbox players, while LE has only steam, if I understand correctly)
Warhammer 40000 Inquisition Martyr had it from the getgo and in early testing. Then the average zoomer crowd appeared and wanted the game to be their way. Since then there was no H&S with some kind of tactival depth anymore ^^.
BTW is there any reason why people answer this troll post? Yeah the game is to easy untill emp monos… we all know that but everything else is a joke ^.
It’s a great game for a one-time play… but it’s bad for replay-value currently. Because of progression starvation there it feels not all too fun for the majority of players, either getting stuck in campaign or seeing nothing changing for sometimes 10+ hours in end-game. That leads to mental exhaustion, slogging through without seeing change is a prime reason as to why people stop playing early, together with burning out from design decisions (like shoving varied content into the face of the player repeatedly rather then letting one focus on a single thing).
The core game of PoE 2 is not bad, quite the contrary… but the execution is awful currently, in 0.1 on the other hand it was a very very enjoyable experience. GGG simply switched out one major problem with another… they implemented a new major issue while solving the end-game issue for variety. It’s not ‘there’ yet but it’s a vastly better experience end-game solely content-wise.
Also mind you… ARPGs of the Hack’N’Slash genre are a scarcity, there’s not a wide spread of options available. So even sub-optimal executions do ‘well’. We can clearly see that with D4 happening, the game works… and it does surprisingly well for simply ‘working’ as well. LE also does well despite serious issues (Balance, MG functionality) so it’s no surprise that a established franchise like PoE 2 has high numbers despite not being ‘great’. But people also can see the potential behind it, and it’s EA, which gives them leeway that LE doesn’t have anymore.
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I still have not seen the OP explain what level of content he is in, and without that, this conversation is meaningless
POE2 and LE have “inverted” difficulty curves, and i vastly prefer LE’s.
POE2 is harder at the start, but once a build is online it is mindlessly snoozer single button aoe clearing 1-3 screens and sub 1-2 minute boss fights. I quit playing my 0.1 SSF 88 Monk because every T14 map was just getting deleted by ice strike and i felt i was doing nothing. 0.2 SSF huntress lightning spear was even more stupidly boring.
LE is ultra easy in campaign and unempowered monos, and only tests you when you choose to push corruption to your limit. The “challenge” of LE early game is learning to finish it faster. Unlike the 18+ hour slog of the POE2 campaign, i can be level 30 grinding monos in just over 2 hrs SSF and level 50 in under 4… the “hard” part at this stage is learning how to push corruption faster and hiw to assemble gear faster.
I should say that I prefer “interactive high APM” combat… As in, i want things in the game to move faster and faster, but I also want the game to challenge me to react.
I feel POE2 moves faster as you progress, but it becomes less and less-reactive. I can just keep mindlessly pushing one button, mostly ignoring enemies. In the endgame, most of my slots are automatic spirit buffs and cast-on stuff. Not only are there very few reactive abilities i have access-to given attribute and weapon limitations, but there is so little defense, that when I die, it happens so fast there is no counterplay. Also, the entire community seems focused on the one-button builds. Ziz famously says he wants to be able to play hardcore while watching TV…what???.
Last Epoch satisfies me MUCH more because (a) the campaign is mega speedrunnable (i think 3 hrs to level 55 may be possible!) , unlike POE2 which is just not (b) the game gets harder as it goes on, and you can push difficulty as much as you want, (c) there are many optimization systems for progressing XP and gear faster - if you are skilled enough, (d) the skill system doesn’t punsh your main skill power for having utility skills (e) ENDURANCE is the best addition to ARPG ever, as it allows you to get tanky enough to take a single big hit and not get “randomly killed by small junk” without being able to take two big hits (f) each zone has telegraphed enemies that will kill you, requiring mental choices and actions to position to take them out without dying, instead of POE1/2’s “one button screen pop snoozer gameplay”
At empowered monos, there is as much difficulty as you want . The challenge you experience is limited by you, not the game… AS IT SHOULD BE!
Defeat uber aberroth and then lets talk.
POE2 is unbalanced and if you want to enjoy it, you have to ignore overpowered skills (currently, it’s lighting spear). GGG are so afraid to disappoint people that they are not doing mid-league nerfs, which leads to this situation. But without touching lightning spear, it’s not that bad. At least in SSF.
Totally agree! I wish POE 2 would have the same, I don’t get why their difficulty curve is inverted. I guess it’s some kind of power fantasy, but for many people including me it feels stupid. i got somewhat ok gear and I don’t try to progress my character further, doesn’t needed, it would only make the game too easy. Now it’s just action game for me, without progression (still fun though. There is no other hack’n’slash ARPG which could be fun without progression).
130 corruption, normal monoliths, was stated a bit earlier towards and answer.
Play a minion build, then the difficulty curve isn’t inverted 
Stay away from meta if you want a ‘proper’ experience in PoE overall.
Yes, which is a massive issue actually. It incentivizes staying at snoozefestival levels of corruption so your build can rush through non-stop without a challenge. Because nothing specific drops which is worthwhile in those… just a bit more of ‘the same’.
Difficulty should provide proper incentives to attempt it, otherwise people get bored out of the optimization relatively quickly.
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Actually, I want to say one more thing It’s another topic, but will just say it’s here.
It looks almost surrealistic for me, that ARPG genre is stalled so much that this is a valid advantage of the game, “shorter campaign”, everyone understands it and, usually, agree with it, it looks like a normal argument. I don’t understand how it could became a standard, having campaign which nobody wants to play again, but has to do it every time. If player, starting a new character, wants to jump into endgame as soon as possible, then something is very wrong with overall progression design. Player supposed to enjoy early game too, no?
That’s not my experience at all… I find it totally worth it to punch way above my level, becuase then there are more better quality drops (I only play SSF/CoF), which helps me take on even harder content. I feel incetivized to try to add skill to my buld to be able to tackle harder content I could do safe… and I like to do it in hardcore.
I start doing level 54 monos in 2 hrs at level 30. At about 4 hours I’m level 60. I finish the unempowered monos, then quickly start to push corruption, at least to 300. At some point I want to see how fast I can speedrun Aberoth… in hardcore…
…becasue without this kind of pace and pressure, ARPGS (POE especially) are so damn easy I fall asleep. In 2 hours of POE1, I’m just finishing ACT 1, which I sometimes do in all blues for a little challenge, but the campaign is so snoozer easy. I played a self-built Monk Ice Strike at 0.1 launch when people were still trying to use lightning skills at low levels and struggling.
i like the “big sledge hammer” harbingers. they hit me I FUCKING DIE. but it feels somewhat ok as most of their heaviest attacks are telegraphed. i just need to get out of the way.
the spear ones tho. fuck they’re scary. their “line on ground” attacks feel faster and are way more deadly. which is weird because i can tank the harbinger doing a dragoon jump.
that said i definitely would prefer if i had more time to react. it doesnt help that getting stunned in this game is kinda easy.
also i’ve had my WORST encounter in the game yet. which is the “mortar” bird men who telegraph a fiery spot that you need to get away from or else you get hit by their delayed mortar.
i fought them in the woven echo that allows us to change an item’s attribute. so the monsters kept spawning repeatedly.
my mainskill is harvest and my aoe isnt “too big” so it felt REAL TEDIOUS to hit a few times and run. kiting while being melee. but if i didnt. i would eat the mortar and likely die.
so i had to hit. move. hit. move. hit. move. I NEVER WANT TO DO THAT AGAIN. and now that i’ve unlocked that weaver point. fuck that echo.
is this related to speed? i dont know. for what i do know is they’re mortaring VERY FREQUENTLY.
Well, then you’ll realize that there’s a bit of an issue existing… with the implementation of the weaver tree and loot lizards you can enforce the drop of exalted items and of unique items. Hence you can set up your tree in a way where you focus solely on killing as many champions as possible, while also spawning as many as possible, ignoring everything else.
This is obviously done best in content where you can rush as quickly as possible to find them, hence without any challenge behind as you go for solely specific parts of the content.
Or you do as you do, which is viable as well… but not the ‘easy route’ which is what players tend to take when they realize it exists. Optimizing the fun out of the game is common.
To a degree I imagine, but the overall issue is… yes… several of the specific mechanics in the game are too fast, at least when in combination with other stuff, introduces a heavy RNG layer rather then a skill-based layer. Got a bad combination? Sorry, you’re screwed.
That defintiely needs some work still.
I agree the campaign is not challenging enough, especially after one or two characters.
And some people want to enjoy a challenge during the campaign rather than rush straight to the monolith.
I suggested you could enhance the campaign with corruption, just like you can enhance the monolith so you can get a more granular raise in difficulty and keep things interesting.
@Kulze - While I see the truth in what you are saying… there is quite literally no way to stop players from choosing to run “easier” content way below their power level on “farm”.
The best we can hope for is a game that advantages players who take the harder road. A game that lets you progress faster by challenging yourself than by sitting in ez-mode low-reward farming zone forever.
I think Last Epoch does that in spades… It takes massively less time to level and gear up by pushing to harder content as soon as possible, rather than sitting around lazy farming easy stuff. Which is a great thing!
There is, but that’s the task of the developers to handle. Creating a framework which doesn’t allow it.
For example in World of Warcraft you run the top-tier content because everything below is not worth to run. You wouldn’t get the respective rewards.
In PoE 1 you only get the best items by acquiring the best item level bases, those can only drop from the highest content. Hence also a solution.
In Last Epoch though we don’t have that simply. Bases are just that, a base, non-descriptive. The item you buy in Act 1 from a vendor in white could theoretically (unlikely but can) become a 4 T5 item. That’s strong.
Then beyond we got exalted items. But there is no limitation on T6 or T7 drops, the second you get into the the last 3 timelines in normal corruption you can start dropping them. I think it’s even earlier but there is no known minimum requirement. But the second it happens… you can potentially drop a 4 T7 item right off the bat.
That leads to 2 ‘item states’ in the game. Everything below level 90, which is rare. And then everything above level 90, which is exalted. There is no further distinction, only scaling through rarity chance via corruption.
The same goes for uniques, uniques provide LP based on area level, nothing else affects that directly (CoF excluded). So to ensure the highest possible chance to get a specific unique item with a high LP value you want to use things which ensure guaranteed drops of those. Pre 1.0 this was echo rewards to a small degree, actively seeking those out. With 1.0 CoF has taken the limelight instead since you can target farm uniques. With 1.2 that is even outshined by the weaver tree since you can guarantee uniques trough loot lizards.
So to guarantee as many loot lizards as possible you rush content as it causes rune prisons to appear. Those allow champions to appear, and champions cause loot lizards to appear. On the side opening cache also causes them to appear.
So the optimal route to get uniques now is to go for 44% to have a champion appear with a rune prison, a overall increased champion spawn-rate and doubling champions for a double chance at lizards.
Besides that enforcing vault of the barnacle king on the web to cause maps with guaranteed 10 lizards to spawn as well, actively searching for them.
This method is vastly faster then any other way to produce uniques, outside of prophecies, and they’re only a little bit faster in high corruption, in low corruption it outperforms it.
Yes, but the game doesn’t do that well in 1.2 actually. For CoF it’s less severe, but for MG corruption is detrimental now. That’s not a good state at all.
Because unlike CoF with favour - and hence direct item production through prophecies - MG already has a starvation of personal drops, after all the market is your acquisition method. So to increase that the guaranteed drops are incredibly powerful. I go out of echos with 5 uniques with LP at times… formerly I got 1-2 per echo at best. But only since I’m skilled towards it.
They drop in the campaign already, via the Nemesis. Quite early too.
Bases, though, are area level limited. Meaning the best ones only drop at higher level areas.
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Fair argument.
Rings don’t, belts don’t, the other have a level restriction which is vastly below empowered monoliths though, which is the end-game. 100c is treated the same as 5000c in terms of drops there. Quantity is also not increased, only rarity. So you’ll drop the same amount of top-tier bases but only a fraction as exalteds, which is the part getting adjusted.
Hence the creation of more quantity and with a guarantee as well is the major aspect there happening.