Forging range abit too high?

Feedback and Suggestions
44

My initial impressions during mid-leveling (levels 40-60).

Blue items feel mostly useless now with such low FP compared to the forging range. I had a couple blue items get bricked on the 1st craft try, then had an item with 3 critical successes in a row. Most of my tries were somewhere in the middle, but pretty much underwhelming.

Drop rates on rares with T4 affixes feel more frequent than before. Multiple T3’s are pretty easy to find. Even so, it feels like you have to spend more time in game to find items you want. Crafting on rare items feels decent so far. Getting items with all T4’s feels like it’s going to take longer than before and require a few more items to try. Of course, you don’t need all T4’s until monoliths so it might not be a big deal in the long run. Upgrading to T5’s feels a lot more doable with the new system.

I like the new glyphs. A lot. :smiley:

I feel like the new system might slow the campaign and early monoliths down a little bit. Personally, I’m ok with this. I totally get that some players just want to go fast.

45

Just to reiterate, re-rolling poses an issue currently. Even, PoE, which is extremely grind-oriented and (im)balanced towards trade, allows unlimited re-rolls. The cost of a consumable, that it takes time to farm, is already am investment, especially if we aim to get the top of the range because it may consume multiple attempts.

I think that a better approach would be to use Forging Potential when we ADD stuff, and don’t use Forging Potential when we remove or re-roll affixes. The latter should be consumable-only affair.

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46

Of course ive played the game, ive beaten majasa to with my Ice Sorc build. IDK what that has to do with anything. My point i was trying to make is that 1. Crafting doesn’t really add much, it did before, but not now in its current state. 2. What sets this game apart from the others? i can literally play any other game in the ARPG genre and look for loot, and rares etc. Power creep in this game starts to get out of hand way too quickly, im level 80, and i can still be 1 shotted by 75’s…maybe i need better gear right? well, i could craft it…oh wait nevermind…I mean you already can’t craft tier 6, uniques, sets, legendaries make u go thru a dungeon…i mean what else do u try hards want? How about stand on ur head spin around then play the game drunk? idk…craft has lost its appeal to me…

47

Idk if it’s really fair to directly compare PoE’s crafting system to this one. In PoE, adding an affix takes an Exalt (a rare, endgame-only drop that can take hours to farm), and even then you have little control over the affix type and tier, unless you farm many more hours for more advanced crafting methods. In LE, adding an affix (that you want!) is affordable at any point in the game, and doesn’t usually require hours of farming. On the flip side, as you stated, PoE has unlimited crafting on items (provided you have the currency), while LE limits you with forge points.

The systems are just too different to compare directly (e.g. costs of rerolling or adding affixes), though I think it’s fair to compare them as a whole (e.g. how it feels to craft decent items, how much farming it takes).

Back to the main thread, I agree that the forging ranges are a bit too wide. To restate what I said in the patch preview thread, I would much rather have a higher average forge cost with a smaller range (e.g. 10 - 15) than to have a lower average cost with a big range (e.g. 1 - 20).

With the last system, I could get a decent feel for how many tiers I could add before bricking. With forge points, it’s a wild guess.

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48

I’m confused, if power creep is getting out of hand, why are you being oneshot by lower level mobs? I assume you’re not standing in something telegraphed?

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49

I havent done enough to make any assumptions statistically but whenever I started with a 3 affix item with 20-30 FP, and tried to add another affix, it tended to roll on the higher end of the range 10-20 fp and effectively cripples the chances of the item reaching greatness…

by contrast, if I start with something that already has 4 affixes (even if they are relatively low) then the potential to forge something good is much better…

The roll in the range isn’t even distributed, but it’s always biased towards the lower end by the same amount, regardless of what you’re crafting on.

The advantage of starting with 4 affixes over 3 are just that you don’t have to add a fourth affix (which costs 1-20 forging potential if you use a shard).

Exalted items with only 2 affixes are/seem to be penalised as if they are Magic items… Is this how its supposed to be?

Exalted items with 1 or 2 affixes and Exalted items with 3 or 4 affixes are both treated as separate cases from magic and rare items when rolling how much forging potential they start with. Both roll with more forging potential than rares on average. However 1 or 2 affix exalted items do generally start with less forging potential than 3 or 4 affix exalted items.

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50

When I was asking about the ranges in the initial announcement, one of the devs said it would probably be between 1-10 for the lower tiers so I was pretty surprised when the T1 craft was 1-20 (which is way too high in my opinion).

The cost for adding a new affix to an item is 1-10 for the first affix added, 1-15 for the second, and 1-20 for the third and fourth. That’s the only cost that changes based on number of affixes. Meanwhile T2 always costs 1-10, T3 always costs 1-12, T4 always costs 1-18, and T5 always costs 1-24.

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51

This makes more sense. Didn’t realize that was the case

52

I’m taking into account all of that, along with 3k hours in the old system and substantial testing on the new system including the Community Testing period. If you don’t have the right affix on your item, chaos it. If you have a magic item you really want to try on, start with a discovery. The RNG is so much more in your favor now than it was before. I literally made a tier 19 on stream from a blue with 17 forging potential and still had 7 potential left (I was too low level to tier 20 it). And that’s only slightly the exception. The fact is, making really good tier 20+ items now is so much easier than it was before.

I realize a lot of you are worried about the changes and don’t like that it feels different, but if you think it’s because the system is actually making it harder to craft good gear, it’s just not the case at all. Now is the time to learn the system and take advantage of the crafting power curve, because if anything it’s going to get nerfed from here because it’s so powerful on the top end.

Edit: I forgot to mention one really important thing. Existing items in your stash from previous patches tend to have a lower forging potential than new drops. If you’re trying to craft solely out of your stash, you’re going to get the impression that forging potential is much lower than it actually is.

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54

I’m assuming this is directed towards my post. This is not what has happened at all. Crafting an endgame level item from a low level base and few affixes may have become more difficult, but basic crafting in the story is even more powerful. Rares still drop, and they have more potential than white or blue items, just like at endgame. The rune of discovery is incredibly powerful during the campaign, and all of the most used crafting materials are also common drops, so players have a lot of them to work with.

Crafting is more powerful now, not less. There are also more opportunities to improve an item through crafting now than there were before. In the old system, if you got a bad affix on it you were pretty much done with it. Rune of Removal would usually fail and even if it succeeded, the instability added made it worse than an item that never had an affix in the first place. Glyph of Chaos gives the player a chance to turn a bad affix into a good one without wasting potential since it also upgrades the tier of the affix. The system has increased the number of potentially good items to craft on, not decreased it.

I don’t normally post this much on feedback sections, especially when disagreeing, because I don’t want to suffocate people’s opinions or potentially create an ‘echo chamber’ scenario. But at the same time, I’m finding a lot of the opinions that are being shared about the crafting system to be based on kneejerk reactions to a very small amount of time spent with the system. A lot of what I have seen people say about the system so far is just objectively wrong, and I’m concerned that it’s going to create an inaccurate representation of what the crafting system is to players who haven’t experienced it yet. I think at this point it would be more valuable for players to take a few days really digging into the system and understanding how it works differently from the old system before deciding on what it is or isn’t in comparison. To reiterate what I previously said: old strategies may not work as well as they once did, but once you understand how to work with the new system, it’s much more powerful than the old one, and that includes in the campaign.

3 Likes
56

Ive blown through now at least 7+ amulets, 4+ gloves, 2 pairs of boots and 1 chest piece with the new crafting system. As others have said, Fracturing was less punishing than this. What happened to the deterministic crafting? At first I thought it was me, that I needed to reign in my expectations, especially because I actually loved the previous system, and was overjoyed to hear that fracturing was going away… until now. Yes, you dont have your tiers reduced or wiped (Thank GOD) but blowing 27 Forging Potential in 3!!! crafts while using Glyph of Hope is ridiculous. And its not just 1 item, it was 3… in a row. Crafting is literally almost unplayable for me at this point.

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57

Same here. Soon as you call out the new crafting changes (Love the new system, its just borked atm) you’ll get flamed on. So many people from the ‘other place’ that dont realize both that the previous system was on track (but missed the mark), and so this one should naturally exceed in that direction… they want their fun at a (Time) Cost. I doubt EHG is entertaining that type of play.

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58

Just to be clear, this is still deterministic crafting.

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60

I think it can be hard to wrap your head around (I remember having a “debate” about it in a previous thread with the old crafting system as well).

Basically, this is deterministic crafting because of the following:

When you try to craft onto an item, whether that’s with a shard or with a rune you’re guaranteed the outcome specified. If you want to upgrade Strength from tier 1 to tier 2, you’re guaranteed for it to happen/succeed. What’s not guaranteed are the control mechanisms behind this deterministic crafting to help balance it. For instance, forging potential loss, Glyph of Hope success (25% chance to not consume forging potential). With the Glyph of Chaos, you’re guaranteed success that the affix chosen will be rerolled into another affix, but you’re not guaranteed the affix that you want it to be.

Hopefully that makes it a little clearer.

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62

Its not a misuse at all!

For instance, a pseudo-random number generator algorithm is deterministic, however it can rely on random input to produce the output. But given the exact same input, it would produce the same number again.

For crafting in LE, the output is guaranteed, you have the item with the result you wanted (even if the result is random, because you didn’t specify what the result should be – because you can’t).

Simply put the “craft” is deterministic, the effects on the item after crafting are non-deterministic (Forging potential loss).

64

No, sorry. It absolutely doesn’t matter how you call it. This is a side discussion. Calling it deterministic or non deterministic doesn’t change the way the system works. It doesn’t change the range of forging potential or what happens when you upgrade a tier 1 shard.

With the current crafting you have 100% control over what stat you put onto your items.

Also you now always have 100% success when crafting. There is no chance of fracturing anymore. Before it was like a slot machine where you put in a coin (a shard) and have a chance if a positive outcome. When you were unlucky, your items was broken.

Now, when the “forge” button is clicked, you 100% get a success. No bad luck of getting a failure.

You can exactly determine how many minimum crafting attempts you can have 9n an item. 1-20 range on an item with 24 forging potential? Worst case you can have only 2 crafts.

Now you can decide if that item will be an improvement with only 2 crafts or if it will be still worse than your current item. Do you have to use rare shards so only 2 crafts would hurt your shard budget?

If you can answer both questions with “yes”, it’s not a good idea to craft on that item.

If you still do, you can be lucky having only low consumption of FP and a glyph of hope proccing as well as a critical success. This all is a goodie on top of that 2 minimum expected crafts.

It’s not viable anymore to collect a blue item and make a 4 affix t15 out of it. It can happen, but it’s not likely.

Choose the crafting bases well. Use yellow items instead of blues. Decide if it is worth to craft on an item. Expect the worst case, not the best case.

You will waste more items during leveling. FP on items gets higher with rarity and item level. You are not supposed to craft on an level 10 item and upgrade it until chapter 7. Instead you will need to find new base items and start over.

This makes the item chase so much more spicy during campaign.

Before 0.8.4 you were able to craft very strong early game items that would carry you through the whole story. I had several chars where I got defeated by Lagon just to realise that I still had my level 7 base items.

Now I set my lootfilter appropriately and I’m always searching for that better base item to craft on.

Also please don’t mix the FP of items in your stash with FP on new items. Forging potential on legacy items is rolled new based on the remaining stability if the item before patch. Almost all items in your stash will have lower FP than items you find after patch.

I’m of the opinion that early and midgame crafting got nerfed. But this is ok, since it was OP before. It was to easy to just craft your story cheesing items early.

But in the endgame you find 4 affix exalteds with 40+ FP. That’s great.

66

Maybe I got your point wrong. Apologies :v:

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68

I think the forging potential is too low or the forging range with 0-24 is way way too high because in 1 or 2 crafts your FP is used up.
How shall I use a rune of ascendance and the craft up on the free slot?! Its impossible. It also requires you to find the almost perfect item with your desired affixes and high tiers. Right now I am disappointed from the new crafting system.

1 Like
69

I read that some are happy because it is better for the countryside. But frankly we don’t give a damn about the adventure, you just need to equip yourself with what you find and limit your sufficiency.

Most of the worries are about the End game, for optimization, so don’t talk about T3, that’s how we do today to have a full T5 Object with the right affixes?

It’s a real miracle today, and honestly it wasn’t that easy before, I don’t understand the need for change.
Except of course like all games of the genre adding just a thousand hours of farming for nothing and artificially adding content that does not really have any.

After all, the new system is not the problem. Really, we don’t care. The real problem is just the difference between the cost of a transformation, and the limit on items.
Would have to multiply by 10 limit to have a balanced thing, most of the objects you have the right to 1 change or even 2 with luck … It’s just ridiculous.

In addition he said he wanted to reduce the randomness of fractures, but is there a change? A fracture or potential 0 is the same thing in the end, and in terms of reducing the random pitier what a joke, with such significant variation between 1 and 20 … Once again it’s ridiculous.

Let’s not talk about the collateral damage of this change like thousands of lost items (become useless) that have been farmed before.
Or the gambler become useless, already it was very expensive to rarely have what you wanted, now you will never have a forge potential. So basically for it to be useful you must have the object of your choice with all the desired affixes and all T5 … Damn, if a guy falls his advice is to play the euromillion, or the lotto.
So clearly the change is just about the wrong thing, things that were already fairly balanced (enough to see a number of cheaters who use backdoor means, we see you guys)
In short, there would have been no cheating if it were so simple, so quick.

There are people like me who like perfect things, and can’t stand this content with the minimum, even if this allows me to do all the content. My pleasure was to have the ultimate object, full T5 with only the best affixes for my build. And believing my without using a cheat was not easy. Now it’s just impossible, its completely destroyed my enjoyment of playing this game.

I like perfect objects and I like having (a little) difficulty, but that’s too much, before it was that I found this game good. We could have good equipment without being a big no. life. (unlike almost any other ARPG, POE in mind)

Now frankly, this game or another is the same you give your life to the game, or don’t play, otherwise you will just be shit with disgusting equipment.

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70

See! It’s totally fine to post if there’s someone on the internet that’s wrong!

I didn’t like the changes to the crafting when it was introduced but I should probably give it a bit more of a chance.

To be fair, the “feelsbad” moment of fracturing has been replaced with the “feelsbad” moment of a very high cost craft that uses up most of the FP of an item, more so if it’s one of the first crafts that you do on the item. But then it does feel nice when you get a string of low cost (of Hope procs) & you get the item a lot higher.

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