hey there, forging potential is super low and super randomly bricking items, devs please increase it a bit or implement some FP loss reduction system upon crafting 7lvl exalts…
It’s only low on bought/vendored items and there are several mechanics that work to reduce the impact of it to give you more crafts.
- Glyphs of Hope, seem to proc quite frequently, way more than the lusted 25%
- critical successes don’t consume FP (I think) and they give a free upgrade of a random upgradeable affix
- there’s a hidden “lucky” roll where if a craft is “lucky” it rolls the FP cost again & uses the lower value
Plus exalted items have a fair bit more FP than non-exalted items. But RNG happens in amy arpg, sometimes it fucks you over & sometimes you get a run of 3 or 4 glyph of hope procs in a row.
They don’t. It’s effectively equivalent to proccing a Glyph of Hope twice.
guys Im aware about all the mechanics mentioned above, average FP for exalts is 35 points. and its fairly low, especially when exalt has a good roll
I just checked my stash and average FP for my exalts is around 40-45 FP. It might have to do with the corruption level you’re farming at.
I agree that something doesn’t feel great about how FP works/is balanced at the moment. Unless you get obscenely lucky, it’s rare to get to do enough crafts on an item to really take advantage of all the systems involved. I just end up with tons of extra crafting materials that I can’t spend because I run out of FP.
Not entirely sure what they should do about it exactly though. Increasing average FP more steeply as you go up in corruption is an option.
Another idea might be to make some kind of rarer crafting material that helps you craft more. Glyphs of hope are just fodder. They’re so common that I’ve literally never thought about whether or not I wanted to use one after the campaign. So their effect is already kind of baked into the expectations of the baseline experience. Meanwhile there are much rarer materials like Runes of Creation or Glyphs of Despair that just accumulate anyway because it’s pretty infrequent that I get to the point where I’d be able to effectively use them.
Aside from making new drops, maybe some of the crafting options should just not use FP and then maybe have their drop-rates reduced accordingly. Some potential rational for some:
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Rune of Creation: It’s super rare and it’s use cases are fairly narrow as a result. You’re only going to use this to copy a really good item, which is probably one you’ve already done a lot of crafting on. So in order to use this rare resource you needed to be lucky to find, you need to also be lucky enough to find an item worthy of using it on and lucky enough on your crafts to not have wasted all the FP. Plus in CoF the uses are even narrower since copying most kinds of items isn’t actually going to be that useful. So it’s basically limited to copying a good ring or weapon if you’re dual wielding. I guess it can be also used to copy an item you want to slam onto a legendary to give yourself more tries, but I feel like if you don’t care about the base, finding an exalt with the mod you want on it isn’t the bottleneck in the process for any craft high end enough to bother using such a rare resource.
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Glyph of Despair: It’s something you can only ever use at most once per item and even then you’re not going to be able to use it reliably on every item since you need a low tier mod to use it on. Ironically critical successes can kind of screw you over if it bumps up the mod you’d want to seal before you do it, which would suggest you’d want to do that first, but do you want to commit a rare resource to an item you don’t know if you’ll be able to finish crafting anyway? I suppose if it just blanket didn’t use FP on the craft regardless of success or failure, then it could just be used as a guaranteed glyph of hope. Either you could make it so it only doesn’t consume FP on a successful seal, or you just allow it to be used that way under the premise that if it’s rare enough it’s not going to be something you do that often.
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Rune of Removal: You’re already taking a big gamble by using this since it might eat your exalted affix which you can’t just craft back. It also taking FP just makes it feel kind of pointless beyond exactly using it as a better Rune of Shattering when you need a specific rare affix shattered. Although even that use isn’t super valuable since a lot of the time you’d rather have those affixes be exalted anyway.
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Glyph of Chaos: You can’t control the outcome and at most you can use it 4 times on an affix slot before you’re stuck, It’s another one where you’re just taking on double RNG for what in the grand scheme of things is minimal benefit since it can’t give you an exalted affix anyway. This one I’m less sure of than Rune of Removal though since you don’t risk an otherwise desirable outcome to do this. If the mod wasn’t something you wanted anyway, chaosing it to see if it can be made useful is basically free if it doesn’t cost FP. So idk maybe this one still needs a cost. Although, maybe we could make it more interesting: What if we kept the FP cost but leaned into it being chaotic? Give it some rare highroll outcomes like: Turn the random mod into an exalted affix, add an affix that can’t normally appear in that slot like a duplicate of what’s already on the item or perhaps something that can’t naturally roll on that item. If I’m gonna risk a lot of FP on a gamble, it should at least be an exciting gamble.
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The affix range ones can’t really be made free since you could just spam them until you got exactly what you wanted, but I also just almost never use them at the moment because of the lack of FP. Not sure if there’s a change to be made here or if it would just get better if the more general problem was solved.
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The experimental materials could maybe be made free under the same logic as the Glyph of Despair I guess. But idk, these are already such niche items that I don’t really have that much of an opinion on their impact on FP crafting anyway.
The most use I’ve seen for runes of creation are creating a good item to slam in a unique and you duplicate it so you can slam it on two separate ones and have a better chance of getting the affixes you want.
This works the same for MG or for CoF.
I assume in MG you could at least use it to create a copy to sell.
Forging potential is pretty random. It helps, from my experience, to keep the lvls similar when upgrading. If you just take one to lvl 5 and the others are 1 it tends to use a lot of points. If you go one at a time, it tends to proc the hope and get free upgrades/less points used. I dunno. It feels rippy when 1 lvl takes 20 points thou, lol.
I think forging potential is in a pretty good place myself, let me explain … Just some food for thought, from an avid RPG enjoyer;
Forging Potential is reminiscent of how Malaysian and Korean MMOs have traditionally iterated on crafting gear … Where there is a chance of failure. Games like Risk Your Life (RYL) from Malaysia did this 20+ years ago … You can incrementally upgrade a piece of equipment, and each time you upgrade there was a chance it would fail and not progress. Some games would even include a chance that your item would just break and disappear.
To me, forging potential is a familiar system, and it’s got a couple of purposes;
- Increase playtime via RNG & grind
- Increase dopamine when success is achieved
- Increase the perceived value of items
I can see why EHG went with this style of crafting, and I really enjoy making a great item.
This differs from how American MMOs traditionally handled crafting, like WOW, where the resources may be difficult to obtain, so crafting a special item takes a long time with a lot of effort. It’s a different dopamine hit than the Asian styles… In RYL, crafting a good item was rewarding because it took a lot of effort, and it was a bit of a gamble if it even worked out for you. Different strokes for different folks.
Yes, and they’re also under extreme scrutiny for causing gambling addiction behaviour. I would be careful with those systems overall.
If a system lives or dies with how easily you’re addicted I would argue that we should find another option to achieve a similar thing.
Like the system poE or Torchlight Infinite use, limited ability to ‘end’ and hence brick a item but instead the follow up systems having endless repeatable RNG. This leads to not having the ‘sense of loss’ when something bricks but overall getting a ‘sense of success’ when your craft works out, even if the time investment is equivalent.
Those systems are a mix between both types… but plainly spoken the korean style should be phased out as much as possible, we don’t need issues like the asian countries have where games are perceived as not a ‘fun hobby to have’ but often either as a career or a gambling-trap with how addictive they are. Heck… china even implemented enforced limited gameplay time for kids as the issue has become so severe.
I can’t remember that even being a topic thought about in the ‘western’ audience… and that’s for a reason when you look at the design differences. Gatcha games… RNG-based ‘all or nothing’ mechanics and the likes. People hoping for that big dopamine-jackpot rather then steady progress.
Plainly spoken those mechanics should be forbidden… and the system of LE is kinda leaning into that, not as hard as Black Desert Online for example… but still… far far too much to be healthy overall.
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It sounds like you are confusing lootboxes, gatcha, and other MTX with what I described …
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It’s a part of it actually.
Those mentioned ones from your side just have the biggest aspect of their setups based on this psychological behaviour.
If we go into the science of addiction then you’ll see that while it doesn’t involve any real world money (which is good, since then it could’ve direct adverse effects) those types of mechanics are nonetheless addiction inducing. Also mind you… basically everything in life can become an addiction.
We don’t need to specifically play into that though. There’s ‘milder’ versions available which have less risk of making it into an adverse reaction that goes beyond simply improving something.
Ever heard of ‘the dose makes the poison’? Same principle here. I personally think that the system is too much in the ‘bad direction’, too high dose.