Fire Pally - now at lvl 77... some further observations

So… I’ve respecced back to fire as the drops came that I wanted. I’ve even bothered with the loot filter, and immediately prefer the experience.

Moving through the normal MoF, a couple of interesting observations:-

So far, at character level 77, I am destroying the trash mobs and the mini bosses in the normal monoliths. (Currently just cleared blood, frost and death lvl 80 MoF)

I swapped out Sigil of hope for Judgement because I just prefer the playstyle. Warpath is holding up really well so far… who knows later on!

But some interesting observations:-

  1. A couple of times I apparently choose the ‘wrong’ quest ending and after googling it, you basically have to do the MoF again. Doesn’t take that long, but seems like bad design.

  2. The only bigger boss I initially struggled with was the bird like one, where I was getting one shot if I stood in the AOE triangle that rotates around the circular area you fight him in. 2-3 goes later and I had it down, once I’d figured out the rotation. However, lagon was another story. I’ve since completed other higher level MoF without any problems, but Lagon has beaten me about 5-6 times so far. I can get to the third phase everytime, but there is just too much going on and I get hit and oneshotted, even with 1200 health and capped cold and lightning res. Seems overtuned relative to the other MoF bosses I’ve encountered along the way.

  3. Really enjoying the way you can work towards MoF nodes to target farm a specific piece of gear, that I think is good design!

  4. Shame that rune of removal is random, and also costs forging potential. I’ve lost track of the time I had a potentially really good item but had 1 affix I didn’t want. Any tips on this would be welcome.

  1. There is no “wrong” choice. It is only taking a different path. You could have easily Continued playing the different path and going through The Stolen Lance, Blood, Frost

  2. I agree that Rahyeh, the Black Sun is a very hard and punishing boss for how early he comes in the Monolith. He has one of the lowest reaction time among all bosses and you essentially need a lot of movement speed or a movement ability.
    Lagon is very punishing as well, but even in Phase 3 you can go without getting hit by anything, granted your dps will be a lot lower if you have to avoid anything. I also doubt that you are getting "one shot"during that phase. My assumption is that you get hit by multiple separate things, which would leave me to belive that your sustain probably is not optimal. Do you have Leech, Regen oder Heal?

  3. Yep, together with the Economy Blessings the Echo Reward System is great. It becomes even better once you hit empowered and higher corruption. Specific Unique Set Item nodes start appearing the Exalted and Idol rewards will occur way more frequently.

  4. My suggestion would be that you need to learn all 3 methods of dealing with unwanted affixes on otherwise good items.
    There are 3 methods, which all work differently well in different situations.
    Rune of Removal - Very RNG, lots of FP cost
    Glyph of Chaos - Somewhat RNG, but depending on the item slot waaaay better chances than rune of Removal.
    Glyph of Despair - This is only for intermediate items since you are “wasting” the sealed affix for undesired affixes. Use this on undesired affixes to free up affix slot. Always fill up all affix slots before using this Glyph. Chances to seal an affix is maximized on 4 affix items. Only worth on T1 or T2 affixes
    Glyph of Chaos is usually your go to method on a lot of items slots. The affix cannot roll into the same again and you should always use it when there is a 2nd prefix/suffix present, because it can’t roll into that one as well.
    Some item slots only have 10-15 available affixes in a given slot, so with 2 affixes “blocked” you have a ~5-15% chance to roll a desired affix for most slots. Item Slots that you should never use Glyph of Chaos on (unless it’s the last step of the item and the item already is an upgrade and has low FP) : Helmet Prefix, Body Armour Prefix, Relic Prefix. Those are the slots which have Class Specific Affixes. Those slots have 30-50 different affixes. The other 2 methods are way more reliable here.
    Slots that Glyph of Chaos is really good at: Shield Prefixes, Boot Prefixes, Wand Suffixes. Those only have 10, 11 and 7 affixes in total so with 2 affixes on an Item already you are looking at 8, 9 and 5 possible outcomes.
    But suffixes for all other weapons are also in the 11-15 affix range, so also very good.
    Also Glyph of Chaos has multiple chances compared to Rune of Removal which usually bricks your item and cost a lot more FP

I don’t think I realised at the time that I could have taken an alternative path. In my quest log I had an unfinished objective for that monolith, basically saying something along of lines of “choose another option”. Being that I wanted to complete the quest, I re-did the monolith.

I’ll check it out later… I’m not sure whats a ‘good’ level. I have some health on hit, health on kill, and additional health regen and healing. I’ll post some numbers later.
Perhaps the answer as you suggest, is focus more on evasion and less on trying to get the damage done.

On the subject of healh on hit, are skills like multishot OP ? If I stand right next to a boss and shotgun it (with the right node allowing all hits to strike the same target), am I getting a huge health boost ? Same goes for some of the other skills like hammer nova/spiraling ?

And finally… I found a youtube video of someone doing the Lagon fight. Alot of them (youtube videos) are older and don’t have the tentacles. By chance, in that fight the player has a build very similar to mine, but with much more health (1900 ish, vs my 1200), and regularly survives hits that take him below 700 health, which would have killed me:-

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I think that’s your problem, if you’re getting onshot by Lagon’s telegraphed attacks (ie, not the claw) then you’re not dodging them as you should. If the waves are killing you them you need more hp &/or sustain (regen, leech, etc).

You can also practice Lagon in the campaign, the fught is identical. Lagon also took me many attempts before I understood the mechanics. Focus on obeying the mechanics, watch a video on it if you need to, you’ll get it eventually.

Generally, skills that fire multiple projectiles at the same time don’t shotgun (unless explicitly stated),

Yup, 1,200 is kinda low, even for normal monos unless you know what you’re doing or have massive dps.

So the giant slayer node in multi-shot has the ability to hit the same target multiple times.
Does that mean your health on hit is applied on every ‘hit’ ?

Yes. All procs will be rolled for/applied/etc for each arrow that hits the target. However, for damaging ailments (bleed/etc), the 80% less modifier from that node is also applied (so as long as more than 5 arrows hit the same target it’s a net gain dps-wise), non-damaging things (chill, slow, life on hit, etc) are not affected by that 80% less (since they do no damage, obvs).

If you want some tips on how to do the lagon fight I made guides for all the boss fights a long time ago.
Some of the info regarding enemy modifiers is outdated, but mechanically the bosses are still the same, except lagon with the new tentacles.

But the strategy and his attacks are still valid.

What also has a great impact on the boss difficulty are enemy modifiers. Do you take them into consideration before starting a boss fight?
In case you don’t, you can play accordingly and let them drop of using Beacons, Vessels or Quest Echoes. Or you pick very carefully a few echoes before you reach enough stability for the boss

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I hadn’t even considered these, thats a lesson learnt.

I’ve done a bit more reading up and think I can make some significant improvements to the tankiness of my build.

I’ll let you know how it goes.

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Yes. If one gets the stability necessary for Lagon then does the quest echoes, the modifiers will have run out by the time you get to Lagon.

Additionally, frenzy & heal if not damaged recently or damage buff when hit are all Very Bad Things for boss fights.

Modifiers can last up to 6 echoes (-1 echo for the echo the modifier was on)
So you can have worst case 5 enemy modifiers active at a time from which 3 enemy modifiers can still be up after doing the 2 quest echoes and the boss fight back to back.

That is an extreme case obviously, but the chance of 1 or 2 modifiers still being on the boss fight after the quest echoes is pretty high.

Does that mean its variable how long a modifier might last ?

I assume you can game that system and push some modifiers that more negatively affect my build off the ‘last 6’ list by doing another echo…?

I guess we derail a bit from the OP, but since you are the owner and ask I guess that’s OK.

Yes you can see how long a enemy modifier lasts by looking at the number besides the lttile skull icon.

3 is minimum and 6 is maximum (it was 8 previously a few patches ago).
The echo a modifier is granted already counts as one completed echo so they will “linger” for 1 less than their initial length. So the 3 duration modifier last for 2 more echoes after the initial one and the 6 last for 5 more echoes after the initial one.

This means the absolute maximum amount of modifiers you can stack is 6 for regular echoes and 5 for all other echoes that do not grant modifiers them selves (like Beacons, Vessels, Shades, Quest Echoes and Timeline Boss fights).

Beacons, Vessels and Quest echoes will also make remaining echo modifier duration go down by 1 when completed.
Shade of Orobyss and Timeline Boss fights will not do that.

With all of that knowledge there are many small things you can do to minimize or maximize the impact and effect of these modifiers.

You can either deliberately stack them by choose echoes with higher duration or you can purposefully make them run out once you reached a certain echo.

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I thought they changed it so they only last 3 echoes now?

Given he’s running through normal monos they’re unlikely to last much more than 3, though the info is goid for fiture reference.

That will come with 1.0

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