It’s funny how you keep deflecting.
Other people have an obligation to know that when you say “This is bad” obviously it’s not a fact, it’s your opinion because:
And yet when someone else says it it’s no longer an opinion, it’s a fact and gaslighting.
You should become a politician. You have their way with words and a way to look at things one-sided.
You are not a victim of anything except your own narcissism’s inability to tolerate being disagreed with.
Nobody has gaslit you, anywhere. You just keep sharing poorly formed opinions about the game and wondering why you aren’t met with applause.
According to a 2022 Washington Post report, it had become a “trendy buzzword” frequently used to describe ordinary disagreements, rather than those situations that align with the word’s historical definition.
The word “gaslighting” is often used incorrectly to refer to conflicts and disagreements.[3][17][29] According to Robin Stern, PhD, co-founder of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence, “Gaslighting is often used in an accusatory way when somebody may just be insistent on something, or somebody may be trying to influence you. That’s not what gaslighting is.”[17]
Some mental health experts have expressed concern that the broader use of the term is diluting its usefulness and may make it more difficult to identify the specific type of abuse described in the original definition.[11][3][29]
Emphasis mine. Thanks, Wikipedia!
“Harassment” is also a real word that has a real meaning, and it is not “I keep voluntarily saying wrong things, and other people keep pointing out that they are wrong”.
Meanwhile, under your made up definitions of “gaslighting” and “harassment”, you are currently gaslighting and harassing me.
Receiving disagreement is a possibility inherent in sharing your opinion openly with strangers. This is a public forum. You are not entitled to express opinions without ever receiving pushback. If you are emotionally unable to handle hearing why others think your opinions are wrong, don’t share them in public. It’s that simple.
There’s nothing for us to talk about any further.
We don’t agree on the definitions, any further discussions is pointless.
If you think telling people they’re wrong because x or y for feeling certain way about a certain aspect of the game - a feeling that’s completely subjective to that person - is disagreement, then we’re done.
It’s ironic that you don’t see that you are using 2 weights and 2 measures.
Someone says “You were stating a fact”, it’s their fault for perceiving it that way because obviously it’s an opinion, since you haven’t written an essay proving it to be true.
Someone says “What you want is D3 loot”, it’s now not an opinion, because I apparently proved it to be a fact.
Whatever people say you deflect into it being their fault. I know I’ve said this before, but I’m done with this. Have a nice weekend.
Happens to me sometimes, like with other homophone words. While I know the difference, my fingers subconsciously type in the wrong one. Often, LanguageTool catches and marks these errors.
Words are important. The entirety of our words form our messages.
Unfortunately, communication is much more complicated than keeping to the correct use of grammar.
Four-sides model. If you are not familiar with it, it is an interesting concept. Often, we hear what we want to hear.
That might be the reason why you ignored the very unambiguous ending note of DJSamhein’s first reply in that other thread:
From this, it should be clear – in my opinion – that he did not try to invalidate your subjective feelings in the first place. He just shared a different opinion to yours.
Regarding factual statements vs. opinions: many people aren’t capable of accepting that “this is good” or “this is bad” is always an opinion. They might even go so far to say, “This game is objectively bad”.
That is IMHO why many people tend to interpret simple sentences without a “my opinion”-disclaimers as people trying to claim facts.
Yes, but without acceptance and acknowledgement, a discussion can’t progress.
The main point was how people instantly jump on others when they’re expression their opinions, this thread is first hand proof of that happening.
I’m familiar with the four-sided model, it’s why I keep going back to the definitions and correcting the places where I think they might’ve misunderstood. Unfortunately, even when pointed it, it’s like it wasn’t pointed out at all, and they just keep going basing everything they say next on their hard-headed premises.
They keep conflating and conflating and conflating. Instead of asking me what I mean by saying something, they go and state as if I said something else.
It’s just a proven fact, by this discussion alone, that people aren’t free to post any opinions that negatively reflect the game without being replied to by the same people over and over. Oh, and be told how wrong they are for personally feeling that way.
TO ADD:
There is a difference between Forum. Discussions, and DEBATES.
This isn’t a place to debate. It’s a place to post opinions. Especially in feedback section. Discussions is not equal to debates. A dissenting opinion doesn’t always need to be debated or invalidated!
I apologize. I thought your misunderstanding of words was just limited to a small subset that you could use to engage in emotional manipulation when losing an argument. I didn’t realize that you also had trouble with ordinary words like “done”, as well. I would have been more sympathetic to your dilution of serious topics through word misuse if you’d revealed this up front.
Yeah, but that’s only because your definitions are factually incorrect.
If that’s what gaslighting means to you, then what I said above about the word wasn’t gaslighting, you’re right, and in the limited context of everything I said defined by your definition I apologize. Now leave me alone. Make your profile public so I can ignore it and never see your replies again. (never mind, found I way to do it) bye
It’s a ‘crime’ that you are similarly guilty of, if you ask me. Instead of trying to solve any sort of misunderstanding, you escalated with “More gaslighting. Just like I said above.”
Wouldn’t it be nice if the conversation had gone this way instead?
you: “I’m sorry, but do you want to say that my experiences and feelings are invalid? Or did I got something wrong?”
other: “No, of course not. I just thought that you formulated this as a fact, but perhaps I was mistaken. To emphasize my opinion: this is just a matter of taste, and tastes differ. The designers have their taste, and this game does not fit everyone. Personally, I like it the way it is.”
you: “Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying. Let’s agree to disagree on how the game should be. No matter what the devs will decide in the end, have a nice day.”
First, that’s how having a dialogue works. Back and forth. This is a forum with the ability to have discussions, debates, arguments, flirts, and whatever form of written communication one wishes to engage in. You are free to publicly state your opionion, but you can’t expect that people won’t share their thoughts on it.
Second, since you brought up the closed thread, it is quite natural for the people in this other thread to respond here if they feel the situation got misrepresented. That’s the vibe I get.
Third, while there is no need to comment on other people’s opinions, there is the option and the right to do so. If you would rather not participate in a dialogue, all I can recommend is to ignore all replies. That’s your right, too.
True, I noticed this.
It should be a well known fact how people need to lead a proper discussion. If we keep going back and forth about what we meant it will take a long time, admittedly, which shouldn’t be an issue since we’re posting here, but the size of posts affect the visibility and nobody is going to read all that.
Again, I agree mostly with what you say, but I disagree that Feedback and suggestions, a corner in the forum designed for feedback and suggestions from OP’s should be used as a place to diminish OP’s views or the arguments they’re bringing, or god forbid tell them they’re wrong for holding their own personal human experiences and opinions.
There’s discussions.
There’s debates.
There’s telling someone they’re wrong for having an opinion.
There’s misinterpreting peoples words as if anything they say is objectively stated when the nature of any discourse is that everything is subjective until its proven to be objective.
They should lock feedback and suggestions from replies. That way, OP’s and other like minded people’s opinions will still remain visible for the developers. If people want to discuss it, they can go in discussions corner, link the thread and talk all they want about it.
But the amount of nonsense replies.
The amount of text.
They’re obfuscating the issues that are brought forth into the feedback and suggestions, and it’s nobody’s place to comment on other’s people personal experiences, I mean, you CAN, 100%, but you can’t tell them they’re wrong just because your own experience don’t match with what they’re saying.
The fact is, that’s not how the forum works.
Maybe that has a reason?
Maybe, to the developers, seeing how the community reacts to an opinion or a suggestion is more valuable than having an endless list of one-post topics?
And maybe the assumption is that people are expected to be mature enough to deal with different opinions without being offended by them?
There’s a clear disassociation between disagreeing with something, and telling someone actively they’re wrong for holding their own subjective opinion.
Disagree all you want. Nobody is opposed to disagreements. I don’t know how many times this needs to be said.
So someone saying a subjective opinion is wrong would be bad, but someone saying they have a different perception and so from their point of view that opinion is wrong would be good?
You can have a different perception on something you didn’t experience, but you can’t tell the person they’re wrong for holding their own experience. You simply don’t know. You can assume, but why make arguments about whether something is good or bad based on assumptions rather than the argument that’s being made?
Example 1.
OP: The grind is too heavy.
Reply: No it’s not. The grind is as long as it needs, there’s nothing wrong with it. Clearly you never played grindy games before blablabla
Both are relating to their own personal experience. But the reply is making a direct comment on OP’s experience, and intermixing their own experience as more valid than OP’s. Not only that, they keep inserting how either OP doesn’t have enough experience, and many other things all to make their own reply seem more reasonable. When you strip them apart, both are equally valid. Instead, in this example the reply focuses on OP’s experience and their credential to even post that. it’s a personal attack on their character. There’s no need for this. Ever. Fight the argument, not the history of the person that’s making it.
What do replies like these contribute to? Can’t it be:
Example 2:
OP: The grind is too heavy.
Reply: No it’s not. I managed to gather everything I had in a timely manner. I think it’s perfectly balanced the way it is because of this and that
And provide examples if they feel like it.
Example 1 is clear obfuscation, downplaying OP’s posts, blindsiding, shifting the blame, and what not. Example 2 is disagreeing.
I see what you’re asking, but that’s not the point of this entire rant I’ve been on.
On every thread of dissent people jump at OP’s or any other reply that’s negative about the game with example 1. They’re instigating aggression by being aggressive. There are ways you can talk properly, and ways you just go and diminish everyone elses opinions.
Hum.
In my experience it has not been every poster, but I do agree with you in that I also feel this community is more aggressively against negative feedback than it needs to be.
I’m not sure this discussion is the kind of thing that would change that behavior, though.
I’m not sure either, but it’s worth a try.
I think there’s too much frustration, but a step back and thinking about it, then calmly replying can go a long way. This includes me as well.
Because I’ve lost the will to ever post anything here that’s negative about the game. Talking about echo chambers…
There’s over 20 replies above that contribute nothing. There are mine there as well. 0. Nada.
For reference, the Pity system thread is below, look at the first reply OP received. Stuff like this is all over the place.
I think this is mostly because the community used to be very positive before launch and when launch came the forums were flooded with people that didn’t have any constructive criticism to add, they just made needlessly insulting posts. Usually in an entitled/demanding way.
So that originated a sort of intolerance to aggressive posts which sometimes bleeds into just critical posts.
Likewise, having the same issues being constantly discussed again with nothing new to add leads to certain irritation from some, which can lead to them reacting in an agressive way.
I try to avoid this when I can, but we all fall victim to this sometimes. Especially when you keep seeing the same people making the same insulting posts over and over again (not talking about Taff).
It was what I was trying to bring attention to. I’m no saint with how I talk, and I’m also against just pure bs threads that serve no purpose than to just bash on the game. if I didn’t like the game I wouldn’t buy it again. I did stuff in frustration.
I’m sorry about how I acted. It’s just extremely frustrating.
Players need to be heard, and not be drowned out with tons of replies that really just don’t contribute anything. I’ve probably gone a bit too far with my examples.
I think we can both share the blame. I noticed you were escalating and kept doing the same.
But in regards to this topic (getting back to the OP), I believe the mods were justified in locking the thread. And would be justified in deleting many of both of our interactions.
Much like what happened in this one. Things got heated and no one bothered to de-escalate things until Erasculio.