Feedback from ex-PoE player after 300 hours of playtime and hitting level 100

After having fallen out with PoE for multiple years due to not liking the direction it has taken, and the spectacle of the latest league I decided to finally try this game out after keeping on eye on it for a long time. The following are semi-coherent ramblings about my feelings for Last Epoch. Sorry, this will be long.

My first impression for Last Epoch was in regards to the speed of the campaign and how gearing during it was a non-issue.

As someone that never pays attention to stories in aRPGs and skips all dialogue, I greatly appreciated how the map layouts are not randomized, compared to PoE where you can run into randomly generated dead ends that serve no purpose other than to waste your time. This meant that my second go around through the campaign went significantly faster as I was able to (for the most part) remember exactly where to go for what, knowing what was important for passives, idol slots, etc.

The gearing was also smooth as butter. I didn’t feel like it was absolutely mandatory to cap my res by the second half of the campaign in order to not get one-shot constantly, which was a nice change. Items dropping already identified and being able to tell with experience what affixes an item had just based on name before even checking the tooltip was also great.

I didn’t at any point feel like I had been screwed out of RNG for the gear necessary to smoothly finish the campaign (something that has happened to me before in PoE, i.e., no tabula drop, and not enough div cards = damage is terrible and bosses take forever). This is greatly a result of the crafting system which I will touch on later.

In short, Last Epochs campaign is a much smoother experience in comparison to PoE, but I think at some point an alternative leveling system is in order, at the bare minimum being available for any character created after the first in a given cycle. The campaign will eventually get stale and tedious for long-term players, and many people (myself included) will just want to blast through dungeons or a mini-monolith to level and gear instead.

Combat feels great. It was a little slow for me at first coming from the zoom and boom style gameplay of PoE that I had come to love, but Last Epochs slower approach grew on me, mostly due to the boss design, and once I got to endgame and started stacking movement speed it became a non-issue anyway and provided me the speed I craved.

Both builds I played were Bladedancers, one using Shadow Cascade for all purposes, and another using Umbral Blade for clear, and Shuriken for single target. The latter felt much better, and it would be the one I would attempt to minmax, and this is where I go into gearing, crafting, and how good it feels until you start to attempt min-maxing.

In my research on builds in Last Epoch, I came across a few stories of content creators and streamers having been caught editing saves and cheating in items for builds, and after chasing those high tier exalts and LP uniques I can understand why. The crafting system currently as it is, is amazing for making “perfect rares” for a build. It provides all tools necessary to accomplish that and only asks reasonable time and item investment to do so. But I am of the opinion that “finishing” a build to the point of absolute min-max is a goal that should be reasonably achievable on at least one build per cycle by dedicated players. Depending on how long a cycle lasts for Last Epoch in the future, this could go either way. What I will say though is that it took a long time to find exalts or good uniques with LP to replace my t20 rares, in fact it didn’t start happening until the last 30 or so hours of my playtime when I had pushed above 300 corruption. If I substract the time I spent learning the basics of the game on my first character, that’s about 250 hours before I started replacing rares with exalts.

I’m not game a developer, but I have a few ideas to make this feel a little better.

I understand not wanting regular crafting shards to give access to t6 and t7 affixes, but one idea I had was to make them immune to runes of removal, so that forge potential can go into changing more of the affixes on the item you don’t want into ones you do. This way, as long as you drop an exalt with a good affix you want, you can at least make it into some form of an upgrade to a rare by knowing you won’t lose that one modifier.

Another idea I had was an endgame dungeon or boss encounter that provided access to a special crafting station with points that scale to your actions in the dungeon, or some form of endgame grind (maybe an “uber” boss accessed through monolith and crafting points scale with corruption?). This could give access to crafting options such as sealing a t6 or t7 affix, changing one resistance affix into another, etc. Can be as expensive as you want, as long as it exists in a way that converts time investment into constant improvements, it serves the purpose.

As for legendary potential, I feel like there just needs to be a better way to farm this. It doesn’t feel like it scales with corruption that well, and even as I currently approach 400 corruption I’m still dropping Bleeding Hearts with only 1, or even 0 (most often 0) LP. Occasionally a 2, sometimes a 3, no 4 LP drops yet, I mention this specifically because apparently its the easiest unique to get 4 LP on.

Another issue is arena uniques. I tried farming arena for hours upon hours going for an LP Vaion’s Chariot because I wanted to try out stacking movement speed with its % increased damage per movement speed, and after countless runs I never got one, and only got the boots to drop at all twice. I feel there are too many layers of RNG here. Not only do you need to get the correct arena champ, but they need to drop the item as well, and then after that you still have to hope for LP. I feel like endless arena is a perfect solution to this, however going to wave 224 I only encountered a champion once. And it did not even drop the unique.

To sum up gearing: It feels great until you start needing exalts or legendaries to achieve an upgrade. This may just be a difference in perspective and goals, as I know many people view these items as “bonuses” and not necessary, but I feel a reasonable and semi-deterministic chase for such items would only lead to people like me playing every single cycle in order to min-max some new build we think seems cool, meaning more potential microtransaction income for you, the devs. For perspective my most played league in PoE was Harvest, which I played from week 1 until it ended. I spent $120 on the game that league for cosmetics just because I found being able to actually progress gear to min-max for once extremely healthy for my enjoyment of the game, because instead of frustration in dead-end items, I was having fun knowing I was constantly making progress on my next upgrade, and I wanted that to last. However, it didn’t due to constant harvest nerfs, and I never spent money on the game again, eventually quitting it for good.

One last thing I want to touch on in regards for this is picking up crafting shards. I’ve seen already that at least some of the devs are highly opposed to this, but if nothing else for the sake of the health of our hands I feel like this needs to be vacuumed up like gold. Picking up all shards in a range is nice until you start having piles next to piles just outside of pick up range in high corruption monolith, and it feels like I’m right back to picking up bubblegum currency in the start of a PoE league. The notion of the items having “weight” honestly doesn’t even hold any water when I’ve reached the point I’m either not paying attention at all to what shards are dropping and just picking them up, or I’m ignoring them entirely because I just can’t be bothered to care in that moment. If you’re absolutely hard opposed to auto-pickup at least consider doubling the pick up range, and/or having them automatically sent to the forge from the start. IMO if it ever reaches a point your players are ignoring crafting items, something is wrong.

That’s mostly it. I could ramble some more about my feelings about game balance, trade, and monetization, but that would less so be feedback on Last Epoch, and more so explaining complaints I had with other games and why they pushed me away. Such feedback is probably better saved for when they come up as bigger topics for the games development

To wrap this up, I think this is a great foundation so far, personally I just feel the remaining implementation of endgame content needs to in some fashion fill a role for access to min-max crafting and gearing, that an alternative leveling system is needed at some point, and that picking up shards needs to be rethought. But if 1.0 sticks the landing by avoiding heavy handed nerfs, having a good trade system that doesn’t rely on third party tools or websites, monetization is fair and not overpriced like your major competitor cough $420 supporter packs cough, then this will definitely be my next long term game.

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https://i.imgur.com/jgDXXab.png

Too bad you gotta find a new game :confused:

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Interesting feedback, I’m glad you got used to the game pace, coming from PoE is a bit hard. I think is in a great spot right now, you get access to superior movement without much opportunity cost with LP and all the other increased are well contained.

I have to comment on your perception and suggestions for the exalted items… I fully agree. Two comments on it:

  • Maybe you’re not flexible enough if you have trouble getting any exalteds into your build. As rares are more easy to get, you can build around exalteds with good modifiers and right bases, is quite easy to have a fairly optimal gear with 50% of it being exalted. Instead of chaos the items for hope of the right modifiers, save them and look for complementary rares. The problem only comes to specific items that must have specific modifiers, but you can work with resistances/flat health, crit avoidance, frailty or attributes that way.

  • The problem I’m having with exalteds: I recently made a T20 showcase build in rares, no sealed, no exalteds, no uniques… Took a while to piece it exactly how I wanted, but rares are so much more common. Anyways, when I see the power I get if I change a single affix in each of the 10 slots into exalted, or the difference between that and my min-maxed build, with legendaries… The difference in power/defenses is ridiculously low, barely 25% overall to say something. T6 is as much 50% of T5’s magnitude and T7 100% of T5. Seems a lot, but as how the game is built, you have your power distributed between idols, gear, passives and skills, exalteds most of the time are at the end, slightly better rares with higher forging potential…

I totally agree with you. I would like to use this post to try to highlight a suggestion I made a while back, that was never even acknowledged by a staff member.

My suggestion is to allow players[accounts] who have completed the monolith system(unlocked the empowered monolith timelines) with at least 1 character from each class, upon creation of a new character to be able to choose to start at the end of time, at level 1, with monoliths that would actively scale with their character level up to lvl55(The original enemy level of the first monolith) at which point they will reset to normal level limits rather than actively scaling with character level. This can actually be combined very well with the time travel theme of the game. When your character defeats the first fire boss and is sent through time for the first time, you could start offering a second portal that sends them to the end of time instead, effectively selecting to bypass the campaign. Again, this second portal would only show on new characters on accounts who have completed the previously mentioned requirement and would likely have to give a warning message of what taking it would do.

This way you make sure that only people who have, at a minimum, experienced the normal progression of the game with every single class have the option to bypass the tedious campaign with any new characters. You also give those players the opportunity to work toward un-empowered blessings while leveling, effectively shortening the grind toward empowered monoliths. I do not think the campaign is innately tedious, but LE is a game centered around customizability and making new, unique builds is the essence of why it is so appealing. After making 20-30characters and running them through the exact same campaign every time it does become tedious in a way.

Both of you are wrong on this one. Neither game requires you to purchase those packs. In fact, PoE allows you to play the game in it’s entirety for free. If those supporter packs did not exist, how do you expect developers to support your free gameplay for everyone? This is not a charity, but a business after all.

Even in LE you DO NOT need to purchase a 1000$ pack. The pack costs that much for a reason, you get special privileges IF you want to support the game past the initial price. I can’t figure out why people think they are entitled to everything on the internet for free. Let people who want to spend their money do it the way they choose to. If the pack did not cost 1000$, then the devs would never be able to keep up with demand because they would have to work with every purchaser individual for those unique items. In fact, that is why it has been closed for a long time now.

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Nopesti popesti, neither of us is wrong and you’re fighting an imaginary opponent here.

There is no statement of there being a necessity, the OP made a simple claim of the dealbreaker being expensive supporter packs with no auxiliary statements on it and I showed that these exist in this game as well.

That’s it.

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I disagree. When it’s pitched as a dealbreaker for a game one otherwise enjoys, complaining about the price point of voluntary, purely cosmetic supporter packs in a 100% free game is not valid to exactly the same degree and for exactly the same reasons that feeling entitled to free stuff is invalid. They’re different statements but they’re not meaningfully different attitudes.

Literally just inventing completely new statements on someone else’s post. OP made a very clear and simple value statement - nothing about free stuff.

And Bronco commented on it with his opinion. He wasn’t inventing new stuff, well, apart from his opinion.

i think the OP’s feedback points are well thought out

Can we let Bronco give his full thoughts here? I was following but Im a little confused now.

@BroncoCollider Please continue.

No, because they made it clear that they:

with

It’s not Bronco’s personal opinion that is invalid, it’s invalid to present them as something which someone else holds when that someone else hasn’t said so.

It’s a good thing I didn’t do that then.

https://i.imgur.com/bOixH7X.png

In other words, to your accusation that I’m putting words in someone’s mouth: People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

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Saying that your statement is different but in its meaningful sense is still applying to the OP, is still attributing that “attitude” to other people’s message when none was presented.

We can make it simple - what exactly do you “I disagree.” with?

We should just be thankful he didn’t go on about him obviously just wanting a supporter pack editor.

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I was used to PoE and the pace of the game as well, and agree a lot with your statements. Especialy with the endgame gearing. I try to target farm Eterras Path with at least 1 LP since 25h and did not find any (even not with 0 LP)
There is one thing I want to add to your list:

Maps/Monoliths are too less populated: When your used to POE where you kill 2.000 monters in about 3 Minutes, this game is sometime disappointing. There are many cases, where I run an echo and parts of the map are just empty. There should not be a case to run 10-15 seconds through an unexplored map to find the next monster to kill.

My advise is to implement any sort of scaling to the endgame. Something like 1% more mobs for 5 corruption. This would result in 60% more mobs on maps on 300 corruption. It may also increase the number of rare mobs by one each 10% mob density. There is nothing better than the feeling of a super mighty hero shlashing dozons of monsters in almoust no time.

If any one of you who is reading this post agrees to this you may like this post to show the devs - or even me - I am not alone with this feeling. Thanks guys.

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I really dislike mob density as a “scaling” mechanic, because it inevitably leads to monsters becoming imbalanced, especially with the more slow and tactical combat pace of LE.

While I do understand that speed and slaying hundreds of monsters is something a lot of people like, I don’t think every game should try to have that.

Mobs are way more impactful compared to PoE and increasing density too much will lead to a lot of telegraphs and general screen clutter.

If you like that in PoE fine, but LE doesn’t want to be PoE in that regard, quite the opposite.

EDIT: But I do agree that some maps can feel very empty, but increasing mob density might not be the right thing here.

I do think this will be fine, once more things to discover get implemented in the MoF (like random events or surprise encounters etc.)

You showed there are supporter packs like for every other kickstarter project. There are no lootbox gambling mechanics in LE and so far the items don’t look so ugly you almost feel forced to buy a skin pack just to stop the eyecancer growing looking at poe.

On top of it the 1k pack isn’t sold anymore iirc or is simply the “create a unique” part gone?

I think it’s the opposite. Mobs are not impactful. Monos have no purpose other than to be completed as quickly as possible. It was a problem when they were first introduced, and it’s still a problem now. I’m a completionist at heart, but even I can’t stand it anymore.

While I agree mob density doesn’t need to be raised, the other issue that there’s nothing wrong with them being lower either. The main cockblock to rushing Monos is picking the right path to the end. Unless it’s one of those where you need to kill X% of mobs for the boss to spawn, the trash is just annoying, and plays no fulfilling part in POE endgame.

It’s like trash in a MMORPG raid, but 100000000 times more grindy.

Something i have really learned to appreciate. Many of the story maps in PoE can be extraordinarily irritating.

imagine that, a smooth ramp in the difficulty ! what a concept !

agreed.

a lot of people talk about this, and i still don’t really get it. but i’m weird and enjoy the campaign. it’s just not obvious to me why running through a delve like dungeon to level is so much better than running through the campaign. So still don’t get it, not opposed to it or anything, i’ll just run the campaign :smiley:

i’m experiencing this also, and it’s not great.

Really good post IMO.

I know people probably get sick of the comparison to PoE, but I think it’s a very good idea to learn from other ARPG efforts, especially PoE since they seem to continue to make as many bad decisions as good ones.