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Feedback and suggestions for ailments and for Necromancer. Abomination in particular

Well! Just tried Last Epoch. Completed the story so far. Expected nothing. Pleasantly surprised and looking forward to see where this road leads. I will be waiting for future updates / release. Very excited! I have some feedback and suggestions I’d like to share.

AILMENTS

Not really necessary I guess. But I think it would be a neat idea to give each damage over time ailment a unique debuff, to give the debuffs identity. These are merely examples:

Ignite: Enemies that burn take 1% more damage from burning ailments per burn ailment they currently suffer, up to a maximum of 8% (for players and bosses, more for regular mobs).

Poison: Enemies that are poisoned have 4% less healing effect per current poison stack on them up to a maximum of 32% reduced healing effect (for players and bosses, more for regular mobs).

Numbers and mechanics are just examples. Just some debuff tied to dots that give dots a unique identity. I think that ailments should have a bit deeper gameplay strategy element beyond “I did green dot, now I do red dot”. Make choice of ailments for those of us that want to focus on damage over time, matter more in that one player might want 50% bleed / 50% ignite. One player with his build might want 100% poison. Another person’s build might want 33%/33%/33% bleed, poison, ignite. Just a thought.

NECROMANCER

What I truly enjoy with a Necromancer in LE, is the move away from the tiresome trope that Necromancers has to have “lots of expendable minions” (Though LE has lots of that too). A Necromancer is simply a magic user specializing in death and raising the dead back to life.
I’m not sure why the trope “Necromancers are all about having lots of expendable minions” came from, I mean I guess D2 mostly. I loved that game but come on. I was so glad to see LE being different, by allowing us skills that reduce number of summons to get QUALITY over quantity. I think this was amazing. “Horde style” is still very present too.

The reason the Necromancer in LE struck jackpot with me was the build flexibility and potential, especially manipulating minion numbers. You could have 1 superbeef fire golem holding the from, supported by a horde of fire archers. Or a single very powerful Deathknight Backed up by a platoon of elite warriors (-50%W number +Stats).

There is so much potential here. Anyway TL;DR:

  1. I think Necromancer could still need more permanent summons. At least one temp summon turned to perma would be nice. Or a skill that changes them to it.

  2. I think the basic summon skeleton skill could also use a pure support skeleton. A skeleton priest that heals other minion (or the player with reduced effectiveness). Or have their own curse they use to debilitate enemies. Anything that isn’t pure damage or healing would be awesome. So that summon skeletons could also provide build opportunity in terms of indirectly supporting you and/or your minions.

  3. The Abomination looks cool as hell. And the IDEA behind Abomination absorbing your minions to gain new skills based on their skills, is very cool and creative. Unfortunately - and this is just MY OPINION - I think the Abomination needs a complete rework. A model that cool, with that size… it should be the end-tier tanky bruiser front-liner imo. Permanently so.

I suggest changing the CORE DESIGN of Abomination to be permanent, and eat corpses near it (including your own dead minions). Gaining the rare modifiers of rare mods (skill) from rare monsters, or gaining skills based on eaten corpses of allied minions (same skills as in the tree now).

I’d rather see the Abomination have mutually exclusive upgrades for BODY PARTS.

By that I mean: 3 direction passive skills, picking one locks the others. For each bodypart. Hands with spikes that stun and bleed. Hands in mummified bandages emitting rot, giving it poison aoe attacks. Or fiery fists for example.

Same for legs. Either legs that gives it charge, legs that gives it higher passive movement speed, or legs that lets it jump.

Body: Either thick hide for lots of armor, with plates attached to it. Also gives reflect damage. Or a skeleton with a whip mounted on the abomination, periodically buffing your minions with frenzy or haste.
Or a bloated body making it bigger, which makes it explode brutally on death as skeleton vanguards and parasites crawls out of the carcass.

As for the head. A two-headed version, where one head spits poison and the other spits bloodsplatter. Or a head that breathes fire. Or a head that roars, buffing your other minions.

Tail upgrades. Occationally swipes enemies with the tail for AOE. Or give it a poison stinger for single target dot. Or make the tail have pockets with hives, unleashing insect swarms from time to time.

The great thing about Abomination - it’s an abomination! It having customizable body parts makes perfect sense. Also its skill trees could give it various auras (choose 1 out of 3) etc.

Abomination as is… it was very creative, and a cool idea. I just think something like this would be better.

Again. What I like about Necromancer in LE - is the customizability. And the ability to build away from the tired old trope that necromancers has to be “lots of minions over quality”. I like that you can play horde, elite few in a hit squad, or a mix of these. Please utilize this more! Hell - if Necromancer was the only class in the game I’d still buy it - seeing the potential.

  1. Poison arrows for archers. Charge for skeleton warriors. Assassinate for rogues (lower damage vs normal, magic and rare mobs - but way higher damage against bosses). Skeleton mages could use 1 alternate active skill each. Like frost nova, fireball, cross-cleave for deathknights (cleaves in a scissor fashion, big damage AOE melee attack on CD, with a chance for a devastating critical. Meaning IF the cross-cleave crits, it crits with +100% damage multiplier). Skill to make wraith or volatile zombie permanent. Dread shade x1 but infinite duration. Infernal shade also having a skill that turns it into a perma-buff for a minion chosen but has a downside. One more permanent aura for bone curse.

Anyway this is long enough. GL with the continued development of the game. Looking forward to seeing how it will end up looking when it’s done.

BTW I actually really like the time travel element of the story. That was actually a real surprise for me because I usually hate that stuff in fiction. But seeing how it enables so much gameplay wise - and seeing how it’s actually very compellingly used in the story - I actually enjoy it a lot.

Thanks for reading (if anyone managed to suffer through this wall of text).

For suggestions to Necro, there are already changes announced, especially regarding permanent minions. Abomination and Wraiths will get an option to make it permanent.

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Man… they are actually changing lots of stuff the way I wanted already. My hype is increasing :slight_smile:

Imo there should still be a passive that makes dread shade permanent and not duration based. Even if said skill would be weaker. IMO some more buffs/toggles could need this. Like the bone curse single target one.

I understand that they probably want players to be more actively engaged (summoners especially I guess). However it would be nice if all the classes could get atleast 1-3 skills on their bar perma - in trade for them being weaker.

I really love the flexibility so far. It’s a theorycrafter’s wet dream.

While I would like to see ailments other than poison have additional benefits (each stack of poison currently applies 1 stack of uncapped poison shred giving ~7% increased poison damage taken), that would be more to balance them out. There was a thread here a year or two ago about it.

Generally the optimal strategy is to apply 1 type of damaging ailment and buff its damage rather than apply 2 or 3.

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Additions:

  • Dread Phalanx -50% max skeletons, should give the skeletons a visual change to indicate their now more elite position. For example, skeleton warriors gaining a full helmet and platemail. The archers getting hoods and cloaks. The rogues gaining black leather armor.

  • Archers having one type of arrow for each ailment type that fits with the acolyte thematically.

  • Upgrade for archers that randomizes their CD on special arrows, or otherwise change it - so that they fire their special arrows unsynched. People might like that they all fire upfront and go on CD at the same time. But I think there needs to be a modifier that allows them to “take turns” for people that want the archers’ arrows to deal more consistent damage.

  • Skeleton Mages. The archmage node should like dread phalanx, have an alternate model when picking this node. To display their more elite status. Like the pyromancer getting golden jewelry and more royal attire. The deathknight gaining heavier looking armor. Cryomancers sliding on ice to move. Something that visually represents these minions now being more elite.

  • Skeleton mages. I think every mage should have 1 more ability, but make them mutually exclusive with their other ability (for balance reasons). Like the Deathknight gaining a buff or debuff aura. The pyromancer using a long CD meteor, the cryomancer casting a long CD ice nova that freezes everything. The skeleton mages skill tree has a lot of untapped potential.

  • Bone golems should visually have vastly different models to differentiate them and to fit their theme. The bone golem looks ok, but I think the blood and fire golem needs complete new models. Right now they are just “reskinned” bone golems. Though this could already be planned and the current ones being placeholders.

  • Infernal Shade. Skill option to permanently place it on a minion to make it a buff for that minion. Same with dread shade.

  • Like in the OP. I think Abomination at the very least need permanence, even if it gets nerfed. I also stand by suggestion to give it mutually exclusive upgradable bodyparts so you can custom make your abomination to fit your build.

  • Wraith minion. Give it a reaper upgrade where it becomes a permanent pet. Looking like those black cloaked reapers in the desert area with a large schythe, but maybe reduce their size a good deal.

  • Spirit plague. Node to make all “When you hit…” effects in the tree into “When your minions hit…”. But now give it a cooldown, and you can no longer cast it yourself.

  • Volatile Zombie. No suggestions. I’d just like to say that I love this skill. Well designed and fun to use. If anything, I think that the skill bonus that makes it do 60% more damage to busses, should also incur a -10 to -20% less damage against non-bosses to balance it out a bit.

  • Transplant. Give an upgrade that means you can no longer transplant manually. Instead, when you take damage that would otherwise have killed you, you automatically transplant yourself inside your abomination if your abomination is present. Very long CD. While inside the abomination, it loses 5% life per second and you gain 10% life per second until the abomination explodes. While recovering inside an abomination, your minions go into an uncontrollable rampage and will aggressively seek out anything to kill.

  • Hungering souls. The penalties to the skill for having it cast when hit are too high compared to the relatively low chance. Needs a buff. Could also have it buffed further - by giving it a CD, or it becoming a toggle.

  • Hungering souls. Skill modifier that makes it seek out and possess your own minions instead. It deals damage like normal to your own minions, and the DoT also deals damage like normal but for half the value. When your own minions are possessed by hungering souls - the possession lasts until death. Possessing your minions with hungering souls gives them a chance that critical hits becomes devastating critical hits. Devastating Critical: 20% chance that a critical hit gains +200% crit multiplier, 6 second CD.

  • Skeleton warriors (warrior, rogue, archer) should all have at least one mutually exclusive skill. For example, warriors can get charge → great cleave, but can not cast bone armor. Archers can get crossbows, more crit and crit multi and chance to penetrate, but can no longer shoot arrows/multi/ailment arrows. Rogues gaining assassination, bonus against bosses but weaker against regular mobs instead of acid flasks. Add skeleton priests (support, buffer, debuffer). Give skeleton vanguards a choice of 3 skills /w upgrades. Can still not summon vanguard yourself, but when other skills proc vanguards - they now get this ability (an exclusion from the rule that minions using abilities does not inherit skill tree bonuses). They only get that bonus. This way players may build around a specific set of vanguards being procced by other skills.

You may wish to have a look at the thread Raw linked, several of your suggestions are already planned for 0.8.3.

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Yeah I know :slight_smile: I just wanted to share all my feedback “as is”.

One more addition…

  • Are vendors and gold really necessary? Perfection isn’t when there’s nothing left to add, but when there’s nothing left to take away. I personally completed the game at lvl54 I think. I like the crafting system, and the stash is needed. However - IMO - shop keepers, the gambling vendor, gold as a currency (in a story and setting with time travel?)… these features feels like they were added just for the sake of it.

    Maybe I’m a vast minority on this. But IMO, shop keepers, gambling vendor, even gold, could be removed from the game entirely. Completed the game in HC-SSF (one death), never used these at all.

Unless the plan is to implement something later on that utilizes gold and shopkeepers, I think these elements are not even necessary. It really does, in my opinion, not really add anything other than feeling like an arbitrary addition (type: it’s in the game because it has to be in the game, when it really doesn’t).

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