You want an ending to the story, that is fine. A finished story is better than an unfinished one - though some unfinished ones (like GoT mentioned by DJSamhein) are quite worth your time. Either way you make too much out of this. In an ARPG the story is an aspect of world design, which is already less important than class and item design. The story serves as an introduction to the game.
It really isn’t that your complaint is invalid, it’s just the proportion.
Localization is even less of a factor and I do think that color of a car is comparable. Your example of a bad dub is fine, too. You must have a red car but the color is crap? By all means return it or don’t buy it in the first place. Doesn’t say anything about the base line black version. Shouldn’t hold back the release of the black version that is perfect for 90% (?) of the target audience.
Oh and btw, you said level scaling could be a positive. But didn’t that discussion boil down to the same conclusion as communism: could be great, only it somehow always fails
Yes, I see where you’re coming from.
You’re talking about the grand ‘Story’ there, which is the big overarching story while then you get more layers underneath… which I’ll come to in a bit.
This is how seasons are done, but it doesn’t fit into a video game. People are - reasonably so - annoyed when an Arc doesn’t finish, hence a series is cancelled before the story concludes, it’s then deemed ‘unfinished’ for good reason.
Also GoT is a prime example on how bad storytelling (the series, let’s see how the books go) can utterly ruin the perception of the whole product in hindsight, as the last season is just a spit in the face for anyone following the convoluted and interesting storyline.
Which leads further into the whole storytelling though.
So, for a series we got at least 3 layers of storytelling, if not 4.
The biggest one is the overarching story, season 1 to the season ending it, resolving everything and leaving nigh nothing open.
Then follows the season ‘Arc’ itself, usually a closed storyline in itself which resolves by the end.
Further we often have individual resolved smaller topics for a single episode, sometimes 2.
And inside each episode we often see mini-stories happening in the form of small happenings between characters.
If we put the same concept into video-game terminology then we can see singular quests as the mini-stories and episodes, usually a chapter being an episode. The culmination of those episodes/chapters then leads to the finish of the Arc, which is equivalent to a season commonly. And further major Arcs in live service games becomes the follow-up Arcs to provide a complete grand overarching story.
In LE this would be that Chapter 1-12 are the Episodes, so EHG basically released the ‘season’ without providing us the last 3 episodes. Which is not a good state to handle it.
As for Matrix: Yes, the first movie was the finished story, Movie 2 and 3 provided a trilogy, each one having their own ‘Arc’ at least though from start to finish with the relevant sub-stories inside. We don’t need to talk about the fourth movie since that was simply a disaster in writing and hence flopped.
As for LotR… it was written as a singular story, the size simply was beyond the scale of a single book, hence it became a trilogy, actually providing also 3 decent Arcs.
All of them have one thing in common though… while the Arcs themselves leave content open for the future… the respective storyline is resolved though. LotR is a prime example again. The fellowship is formed at the end of Book 1, Book 2 is a negative ending with Sam taking over the ring, Book 3 is the culmination of the story with Sauron’s defeat.
Which was actually supposed to be a small sub-story of the whole ‘middle earth’ saga that never got finished.
Which is fine in that case though! After all their respective story is done.
Also we need to take into consideration the complexity of the respective medium there and hence the portioning of the stories. Series are 25 minutes for a reason, attention-span. Movies are between 1 1/2 hours and 2 1/2 hours also for a reason… attention-span again.
Books are expected to be ‘consumed’ over a longer span of time, for a decent rather 6-8 hours, limited by convenience of how clunky they become when they’re getting too big simply, which is the natural cut-off line.
Video games? They story itself is usually very very simplistic and the mechanics the focus, hence they take a backburner role, which means the complexity of creating them isn’t the issue, it’s the stuff around it. In LE the assets mostly, which are the main limiting factor. But that also means given their simplicity they’re provided ‘at once’ in a full package and at best expanded upon in… well… expansions.
You basically get a visualized interactive and immersive book but with far less content… unless you take games like ‘Disco Elysium’ for example. And heck, even they released their several book long game at once and not cut up in segments.
It’s simply not acceptable to not provide the whole ‘Arc’ at once packaged as a end result. As for why? Because the ‘Arc’ (chapter 1-12 in this case) are not ‘done’ yet, hence not ‘released’. We have the equivalent of a ‘ongoing’ series and not a ‘released’ series hence.
We’re not even at Season 2… we’re in the middle of season 1. That’s a major difference. Like how many people watching series don’t start watching it before it’s fully released. You can compare a season in mid-release as ‘Early Access’ in video games.
It’s not proper towards the customer to provide a product in a different manner then the expected way for it to be released in the respective medium… unless clearly and without fault being made aware of it going away from the norm.
And turn into a time-waste the second they finish
Well, I complained about 2 things for now, Factions and the status of the game being ‘released’.
I don’t think I’m out of proportion to say that a game ‘releasing’ without the main story finished isn’t up to par as that’s the nigh never otherwise seen norm. And I also don’t think that the ridiculously bad implementation of MG (with a myriad of other market system offering a vastly better experience) should even be up for discussion as it fails to provide what the system is supposed to do… fluid progression without being over- or underwhelming to a vast degree at any stage.
Absolutely not. I can drive a red car just as well as a green car, it has no effect outside of vanity, it provides no function.
A dub does provide a function, which is the baseline understanding.
A localization also provides a function… which is also understanding.
Imagine teaching material being translated in your language through google translator and then wanting to use the knowledge derived from it. You can’t compare vanity with function.
But it doesn’t as we see with ‘No Rest for the Wicked’, their system is not only functioning but also outright improving their game. Very early access but it showcases the functionality in ‘how it’s done right’ perfectly.
The negatives of scaling are that you as a player are deprived of the feeling of getting empowered through progression. Hence they simply went along and removed the enemies from the areas and put new ones in depending on how you progress along the game. You got stronger but stronger stuff took up the area, hence keeps the immersion properly adjusted to you as a player. Which is the sole downside of the system otherwise.
Unlike for example Bethesda games which just make enemies more damaging and more chunky, making it seem like a rat is as much of a danger at the start then at the end, depriving you for any feeling of ‘getting stronger’.
That’s not true, it’s solely how a dev puts their emphasis on these aspects.
MMOARPGS often come quite close to diablo-clones. We can take Guild Wars 2 as an example. Good overall game but you can entirely play it for the story itself as well and derive a great amount of enjoyment from it. It’s decently written, has nice Arcs, a good experience for that.
Chronicon in comparison? What’s story? It’s there to have ‘something’ and it leans fully into the mechanical aspects.
Same with other genres.
Nobody gives a shit about the story of the initial Super Mario.
People praise ‘Ori and the blind Forest’ as a masterpiece because of the story. Without it the game would be a ‘good platformer’ simply.
I’ll agree that the mechanical aspects of a game are the biggest importance (outside of walking simulators or similar things, which are basically just an interactive movie) but if a story is provided then it has to be in a finished state, much like any other aspect of a game should be.
Not providing finished thought through concepts is why for example ‘Starfield’ failed. All their systems are there but feel barebones, unfinished. It’s ‘mediocre’ in every aspect.
Absolutely fair point!
Don’t provide the localization hence and lure in people with a promise you can’t fulfill though.
Why this is even an argument is beyond me.
If you can’t provide a german translation which makes sense… then don’t do it until you can. At least not for a release candidate, because there it’s expected to be handled, much like a finished story.
It is though, generally speaking while there are some games that do dwell more heavily on the story most gamers tend not to be there for the story, especially after the first time through. After the X thousandth hour? Are they really pkayimg the game for the story?
I would say so, yes. Nintendo games as a kid aside, I’ve been playing english games since Heroes of Might and Magic III “forced” me to. Our localization didn’t arrive for weeks and then I just got the original. Sure we did have english classes, so it wasn’t all chinese signs to me, but we never really learned about knights and castles in those classes either.
That’s where we disagree. I’m as mad about the epilogue as anyone, but that doesn’t completely spoil the fantastic ride before. It is a taint, sure.
To finish that localization topic: I never contested that the game is potentially unplayable for a non-english-speaker, to a higher degree than not wanting to drive a black car. I only contest your dramatics. You came to the conclusion that you could neither leave a positive steam review nor recommend LE to your friends - despite it being far and away better than Diablo 4.
And to me your complaints are negligible. Are you german? We (sadly) have that tendency to trash everything below 100% perfection
Ok, let’s try to break this down a bit. Your walls of texts are growing lately. I think you got a new rank.
The only real bad part of GoT was the last season, though (the one where they had to make it up on their own because Martin will never finish the books). Until then, it was fairly true to the books.
And in the context of this discussion, both the books and the series close often without closing arcs. Quite often (especially the books) it actually starts a new arc only to leave it suspended until the next book/season.
It does apply to video games, though. LE isn’t a finished product, so it’s very akin (or it can be) to a seasonal series. Story isn’t finished yet, left on a cliffhanger, “to be continued”. Unless the game tanks before then (not likely) it’s not any different from a tv show in that regard.
This is where we disagree the most. To me, quests are episodes and chapters are seasons. This is the fundamental difference in our viewpoints.
So far we had 9 seasons of story, with 3 more confirmed.
This is just a personal preference, obviously, but I found 2-3 also bad. My own personal joke with a friend is that I wish they would finally make a Matrix sequel. Anyway, it’s a sidenote, not relevant.
Did we watch the same movies? Granted, 2 and 3 aren’t great and kinda forgettable, but there was no arc finished in movie 2. They just made a really big movie and decided to cut it into two movies after a plot twist (Neo is actually a Jedi and this is all in the Star Wars universe).
I don’t think you remember the books correctly.
Book 1 sees the forming of the fellowship at the middle of the book, then they all go to Moria, then they’re separated and Frodo goes on his own. We’ve had an arc finished (forming the fellowship) midway in the book, no arc closure at the end of the book.
Book 2 ends with Gandalf riding for Minas Tirith and Frodo being captured by orcs. Hardly an arc closure there. In fact, it’s just a cliffhanger to continue the story.
Yes, there are some smaller arcs that are closed haflway through, but both books end up in cliffhangers of the big story arch without closing anything and with several hanging arcs (like Boromir’s arc which starts at the end of book 1 and doesn’t resolve until halfway in book 3).
I don’t know what series you’ve been watching, but most series I’ve watched with 25mins are usually comedies. Most “serious” series I’ve watched have 45-60min episodes
Again, not a seasonal game. If LE didn’t have a seasonal model, like GD for example, then yes, the story would have to be finished. As a seasonal game, not really. It’s episodic and they can continue to release new episodes/seasons.
Already addressed above. To me, each chapter is a season.
No. You might say that some players care about the story and some don’t. But it’s not the devs that put their emphasis on that.
Many (most?) players really don’t care about the story at all. On the one hand because the time they spend in the story is a small percentage of their total time in the game, which is mostly endgame systems. On the other hand, because many players just play ARPGs for the mechanics.
I’ve finished D2/D3/D4 several times and I’ve only ever just paid attention to the story in each one time. Every single subsequent time I either skipped the campaign (D3/D4) or the cutscences (D2).
I’ve finished GD several times and I haven’t followed the story even once. I have no idea what the story is about, what the overall arc is or even remember most of the NPCs.
It’s just not important at all to me. All I want is to beat up some monsters.
Again, we disagree on this. If the game was in a finished state, yes. If the game is ever evolving (like seasonal games are) then no. It’s like comic books: you have an arc that spans 3-5-10 comics. In neither of those comics is the arc or even sub-arcs closed. You just know that the story is sliced up and wait for next month’s issue.
In this I totally agree. They should have just launched the game in English only until their <insert language here> was up to par.
Eh, I wouldn’t put this argument forward. If we solely go to compare things in the ‘great scheme of things’ then we can argue that mobile gaming is superior to PC gaming because more people do it and it makes far more money.
Also we could argue that books are an inferior entertainment medium because games are consumed by more people nowadays.
It leads to a generalization which doesn’t bode well. The same line of thought is what causes the downfall for ‘AAA’ games since they’re putting the overall denominator so low that even casual players begin to be disgruntled by them.
Stories in games are enjoyed by a non-neglectable amount of people, hence it can be an important aspect of a game and it depends on the emphasis on the devs. Put much effort into it and then it’s expected to be an important part. But no emphasis on it and it is a throwaway aspect.
EHG clearly went the emphasis route since the sheer scale of assets specifically made for this part of the game is in comparison to end-game extremely high.
Yes, and if D4 would be on Steam then it would get a negative review
So LE clearly does better!
Yes, I am, good guess, and yes, I have quite high standards for products I consume since my time is quite limited and the variety of games out there is high.
Well, what can I say? Practice makes perfect to become a wall-texter!
Yes, that’s true. It’s a specific storytelling method which enforces that the specific Arcs are given far less emphasis then the overarching story. Hence reducing their ‘standalone value’ so to speak. Which made the fallout for the last book that much worse and why I also believe he’ll never dare to finish the actual books
Then don’t ‘release’ it.
I know the argument goes into the ‘endless content releases’ direction there, but that’s exactly the issue. Somehow the gaming sector got this weird concept in their mind that giving us bits and bobbles rather then comprehensive content that by itself can be seen as a ‘full experience’ at any point in time is a acceptable practice.
Fair point, but it’s the same way how more and more series handled their ‘double episodes’ going forward from there.
Basically 1 is standalone a ‘finished product’, 2 and 3 are worse but given as a double-bundle of sorts. ‘2’ is similar to how Game of Thrones leads over into the new Arc, hence far less emphasis on the individual aspects and much more on the overall story told throughout the trilogy. If they’d cut if off after 2 and left it there ‘Matrix’ would’ve been a negative example in movie history rather then a positive one and we would solely talk about ‘Matrix 1’ as a standalone movie while ignoring the follow-up. But it could be spoken about as a ‘comprehensive experience’ nonetheless since that singular story in itself is finished.
A important difference to Game of Thrones where the ending of the whole saga effects everything back to the first episode, hence reducing the quality of the product overall if not done well as not a single season can be deemed ‘finished’ in a standalone manner.
I mean… I last read them back in middle school times basically… so it’s been a while, can very well be.
And as mentioned they were written as ‘1 story’ rather then a trilogy by Tolkien, relatively worthless if we only have book 1 or 2 available… but the story was finished before it began to release, the sole reason to do it in 3 parts was for economic reasons… by the time Tolkien released it thought there was nothing to write for it anymore, he started when the last dot in book 3 was made. What I highly praise the guy for.
Generally, back then stories weren’t released when they weren’t finished already in the background commonly, which became more prevalent with the episodic type of content we got from TV later on. And then further it leaned into light-novels with the internet as well as Early Access for games in the gaming sector.
Which brings us back to the whole point. If it’s not ‘done’ why declare it as ‘done’ (released)? Hence it doesn’t fit that term, it’s still ‘early access’ since one core aspect of what they wanna provide as a basic product simply isn’t done.
Yeah, it switched with Netflix, their ‘on demand’ concept moving away from TV with regular releases allowed them to switch it up.
We can still see the 25 minute rule in the Anime sector nowadays though.
Diablo 3, seasonal game, released with a full story.
Diablo 4, seasonal game, released with a full story.
Torchlight Infinite, seasonal game, released with a full story.
PoE, seasonal game, actually released with a full story that can be counted as ‘closed’.
LE, seasonal game of the same genre. No full story.
Wolcen, seasonal game of the same genre. No full story.
Those 2 are the only seasonal games of the genre which released in such a state. It was seen as shit in Wolcen and a major contesting point.
Why isn’t it for LE?
Ah yes, because the ‘saving grace’ for LE is that it’s mechanically sound, which doesn’t remove it entirely from the goodwill of the customers.
Yeah? So? That doesn’t negate my argument at all though?
What does it have to do with anything if people stay for the gameplay? That’s the sign of good game mechanics, not a bad/good story.
You’ll have a massively harder time to sell a game to the masses though if you don’t provide one. Why? Because the mass amount of people don’t play a boatload into the end-game. Only the core audience usually does keep doing that.
So once more, non-neglectable amount of players. They come for the story but stay for the gameplay one could say.
Lost Arc was the same, it promised to be a fantastic game with a great story… and it upheld that. But the end-game long-term is ‘eh’ in comparison, kept a decent chunk of people though nonetheless, not a bad game hence, they provided it well.
Final Fantasy 14, their whole game is basically a massive ongoing story for hundreds of hours by now, and people actually focus on the story there. Still a really good MMO with good mechanics. Remove the story and it’s a decent game.
You misunderstood me. LE will never be a finished product. Much like PoE isn’t a finished product 10 years after launch.
The seasonal model only works on some genres, ARPGs being chief among them. And it’s a good model because you only have 2 options:
-Wait 15 years working on the game until it can be released.
-Release it with enjoyable gameplay and keep filling it.
The first option makes it so that studios don’t make games, since they go bankrupt before then.
It’s not like LE doesn’t have fully functional class/skill system, as well and endgame systems and plenty of stuff to keep you happy. It just doesn’t have everything that it will have in a few years time.
Would?
I already ignore the sequels. If the first Matrix is on TV I still watch it, but not the other ones. Anyway, that’s just a personal preference and irrelevant to the discussion.
Releasing trilogies in fantasy one book at a time is a standard practice. Where the whole story is incomplete until you finish reading all 3 books. And yet it’s done, as you say, for economic reasons. If they were to make a gigantic book it would be more expensive and if they were to wait to release all 3 at once not only would it still be expensive buying them all at once, the writer might go bankrupt before finishing the book.
An even more egregious example is Wheel of Time, where you need to read them all to get completion and there’s a lot of them.,
Likewise, EHG will continue to release “books” until the story is finished and for the same reasons: if they didn’t, they’d go bankrupt.
There’s a fine balance between finishing the story, the mechanics and the QoL/bug fixing. You can’t focus on just one and have to sort of work on them all at once.
Fantasy trilogies have been a thing long before the internet was accessible for many. Just look at Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and many others, written in the 80s. And the Earthsea series and Dragonriders of Pern, among others, released in the 60s and 70s.
It’s not a new thing to release a story in “pieces”. Especially in fantasy settings.
Everything they’ll be adding up to at least 1.4 is from what they wanna provide as a basic product.
Monoliths, for example, will be expanded a lot over time. It’s not finished. Yet it’s playable, enjoyable and presentable.
Likewise, the campaign will be expanded a lot over time (until chapter 12). It’s not finished. Yet it’s playable, enjoyable and presentable.
You might not like to have to wait for the rest of the story, but I don’t see an issue with it. I would if LE was released as a finished product that wouldn’t be worked on again.
No, most “serious” TV series have always been 40-60 minutes long. E.R., for example, long before Netflix, had 45 minute episodes. Lost was 40-45. Breaking bad was 45-50. There are many others (didn’t want to bother searching for more) way before Netflix.
Likewise, most comedy shows tended to have 20-30 minutes. As well as animated series, including animes.
It’s not a Netflix thing, it’s always been that way.
Pretty much. In fact, it could have released without a story and it still would be good, in my opinion.
D3 released with a full story but the gameplay wasn’t good.
D4 released with a full story but the gameplay wasn’t good.
And Blizzard is a multi-billion studio with thousands of employees.
LE manages because they made a game with good gameplay and get a pass because they’re a small studio.
If Wolcen had gone with the seasonal model, it might have been finished and it might even be a good game by now. Even if it launched incomplete.
The problem with small studios is that they need revenue to keep going. Kickstarter and EA is only good for a while. After that, the devs need to have a way to generate income or go hungry.
Personally, I feel like EHG did the right thing. They have enough story to introduce you to the world and its theme, and they focused on the gameplay instead. Which is what keeps the game alive.
I’m sure that if they had a choice, they’d rather work on it for a few more years, but you can’t eat lines of code, even if they’re byte-sized.
EDIT: D3/D4 were also a lot more expensive than LE is and Torchlight already had 2 games in the bag to have a financial airbag that allowed them to grow into a larger team.
Bigger studios get less slack than small ones.
Yes, I know what you’re getting at there, the ‘endless content’ direction. Which is fine.
What I mean with ‘finished’ is… if development stops tomorrow, can you say it’s a ‘completed experience’?
No you can’t, because the story cuts off in the middle.
In comparison PoE always was a ‘completed’ experience starting with 1.0. No matter the state, without knowledge from before or what is to come someone can experience it and say ‘yeah, the story is told’ at that point of time.
This is the difference.
You have another one in-between though?
-Release it in a comprehensive state and then adjust if additions are made accordingly.
The ‘reformative’ way of how games have turned to provide the content. There’s a reason why that happened, it’s the easiest method simply… can’t be called ‘optimal’ but definitely works.
See?
The point is that said writer already finished the story before the first book was released though.
And nowadays we have the alternative ways for writers to fund their writing projects, albeit to be fair… the most of them suck still. But it’s definitely more viable then ever before to not release half-way through and first finish your story then ever before… not the other way around. And instead of that happening we get ever more unfinished products left and right.
Obviously it’s not always a viable option and we get very enjoyable ‘enjoy the road’ stories of different kinds, probably the most prominent one being ‘One Piece’ in modern media. But same there… the second that Eeichiro Oda would stop it without ending it… for whatever reason… the show would loose relevance immediately and be remembered as ‘the great story with potential that was never finished’.
Which brings us once again back to video games and ‘released’ status.
We have pre-alphas, we have alphas, we have betas… they’re all put into the cover of ‘early access’ because that’s hat that tag is for, providing access, providing funding during the time towards completion but not a ‘comprehensively finished state’ for whatever reason yet. The moment you ‘release’ though it’s expected - and for good reason - to have that comprehensive state reached.
LE has not.
The difference is that Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance were not written while they’re released… they were written and then released. Each of the dragonlance Arcs - which are fully enclosed finished stories on their own - were written fully and then released in parts.
That’s the difference.
LE is not ‘done’ yet and just not released. The content supposed to be provided to us doesn’t exist yet.
Exactly! Their end-game mechanic can be seen as a comprehensive and ‘done’ mechanic if today the development stops.
Is it the same for the story?
Looking back you’re actually right for many of them.
It still counted as a ‘double segment’, which is also fine at times depending of airing time. It was made with advertisments in mind, that’s the reason as to why those times even became a thing.
That’s why all of them are the same length.
This is changing luckily nowadays with series not for TV and movies not for cinema turning ever more into a varied thing simply telling their story until it’s told.
Absolutely!
Which once again returns towards ‘If they intent to provide a story then it’s to be expected to be on the same state of being finished as all other pieces of the game’.
Which it isn’t though.
If they’d chosen to provide a generic ‘something’ to us simply and focus solely on the gameplay and progression aspect then sure! I’m 100% in your boat there. But since they didn’t I can’t agree.
Wolcen teased a seasonal model, albeit without fixed times for release. They failed atrociously after the first unreasonable content upgrade came out, never to actually solve their core issues like a broken story, broken end-game and extremely repetitive content after the story.
The sole reason to play Wolcen was the story, once… which would’ve been fine! But not even that was ‘done’
Oh! Absolutely! I agree 100% there.
Which is why if you go EA you need to have a plan towards release in mind.
LE had a chance to play out Act 6 as the ‘end’ of the main storyline but failed it. Instead of providing Act 7-9 they could’ve gone and handled the first expansion of the monolith system before. They didn’t though.
Nobody would be confused if the story would’ve been showcased as ‘We beat the emperor and the issues for the future resolve like this’ before then being put into alternative timelines to experience possible other outcomes. And maybe a bit extra content beyond.
But we didn’t get that. We got more story instead which is unfinished and it released like that.
LE should’ve released with Act 6 and some extra end-game content, maybe the factions if they would’ve been ready by then (which they weren’t in 1.0). But that’s simply not the state it’s gone, hence it’s a viable point to make.
Not only would it have saved time but also allowed them to focus on providing us a comprehensive experience with already providing extra assets for the end-game which then is used in the campaign bits and the expanded storyline in later stages of development.
Once again, this way nobody buys the game and can say ‘it’s not a comprehensive finished experience in the current state’ at any time.
EHG didn’t do that.
That’s called a fuck-up.
Happens.
Should be pointed out though.
Unless you’re talking about the different trilogies (chronicles, legends, etc), no they weren’t. The first book was released as soon as it was written. In fact, as stated by Weis (I have the annotated trilogies), the reason why the first book in chronicles closes everything is because they didn’t know how successful it would be and if there was going to be a 2nd book.
I’m a big fan of them (mostly Weis, tbh) and I’ve read everything she wrote. And every book in a series was released as soon as it was finished, they never waited for the whole story to release them.
In fact, it’s why they never finished the Starshield series.
I don’t see how that would change things. When they then expanded the story it would most likely stop at act 9 once again, because it’s a cliffhanger. I know you don’t like that, but to me it feels natural.
If it had stopped at act 8 it would actually feel incomplete, seeing as you simply got the blessing and nothing moved forward, but act 9 moves things forward, even if it does resolve them.
Ultimately, I’m sure the devs would have liked to keep working on the game and release it with a full story, factions, pinnacle bosses, and everything else they’re working on that they still consider core to the game.
But the reality is that the options were most likely limited to release as its and keep working on it with a renewed income, funds jobs and keep this as a passion project that might be released 20 years from now, or abandon it.
Bottom line is: is the game good enough to be played for hundreds of hours? It’s it enjoyable? Does it have good mechanics?
If it is, it’s already a lot better than most “complete” games and a much better deal as well.
A few people might consider the story important (like you obviously do) and be annoyed it isn’t finished, but in ARPGs the story is an accessory, not the main thing (as can be easily seen by the amount of people in every single one of them that request campaign skips).
Personally, they could abandon the game as is and I’d still play it for years. Much like I still play d2. And the fact that the story isn’t complete wouldn’t bother me one bit. In fact, I only have a foggy notion what it is anyway.
You can see them as the equivalency in Path of Exile with Providing Act 1-3 for the first trilogy, then Kitava for the second and the sirus Arc for the thord for example… and so on.
You get finished stories nobody would be bothered with if you just left them permanently like this but still leave things to be told open.
It changes perception, and perception is important.
And with a reasonable development direction the release of Act 7-9 wouldn’t happen in this way, it would happen towards a new natural cut-off point before progressing beyond.
So a more optimal development would’ve been to stop at 6, focus on end-game content, expand map variety of monoliths so it already includes the layouts of the story and then put it accordingly into the story as soon as it’s written and the characters and cutscenes made for them.
This way it feels like it never ends in the middle, provides functionality during development and keeps regular content coming. First the new enemy types would appear in the end-game and then makes for a complete experience when implemented into the storyline as well together with NPCs and bosses for the respective story to be told.
That’s how other live-service games do it and it not only worked out but is clearly a better choice then how EHG did it, small studio or not, it’s a failed design-choice in my eyes simply on how they provided us said content.
Yeah, Act 6 closes the imperial timeline, in the current state we’re supposed to come back to it with what Heoroth provides us. Since it’s our natural timeline though we stay for Lagon and Majasa. So, with opening the can of worms of ‘we gotta fix our own timeline as a priority’ anything beyond becomes meaningless for the time being, which means that starting with Heoroth the whole ‘god-Arc’ has to be finished in terms of storytelling for a cut-off point. That could’ve been easily done with Act 9 ending as well, no fleeing antagonist which we’re directly supposed to follow - but can’t because of the worst nonsensical line of some random disgruntled NPC in the end of times - but instead… let her throw us into the end of time again and then lead over in finding a solution in alternative timelines to stop her. It would be a far more natural way to put the story over into the happenings of the monolith and make sense to find out more… which we don’t though currently, so there would at least need to be ‘something’ there to tie that in.
Eh… would argue probably not hundreds of hours, for the average player it offers around 40-60 hours of play-time, only die-hard fans like us stay for more. Enjoyable? Yeah, mechanically definitely, story-wise… partially at best currently because of said state of it.
Depends… if we look at the genre itself I would say Path of Exile definitely provides - for many obvious reasons - a better deal, even with initial investment into the tabs. Also Torchlight Infinite provides a better deal given its free to play status giving you full access to the game… predatory business practices of buying progress options in there put aside.
I would also argue that for example ‘Chronicon’ provides a better deal since the price-tag is very low and mechanically provides a good ARPG.
So while it’s ‘high up there’ there’s definitely overall better deals out there if we solely go by that.
How many playing through it for the first time ask for that though? Which is what a story provides, a single unique experience. Obviously it looses relevance if it’s already told, which leaves only mechanical aspects.
Discerning between them is fairly important for that topic.
Level scaling is an absurdity that makes leveling up a punishment. I know I’d be out of the game the minute it is implemented.
I know some players have no issue with it, but from a design point of view, it just completely misses the point of having levels in the first place.
Which is why I recommend taking a look at ‘No Rest for the Wicked’ on how it’s done right. Their system doesn’t punish leveling and progression, scales areas gradually with you but nonetheless removes all the downsides in perception.
I don’t need to take a look at that game to see the same kind of system. It’s not a new one, and while not as harmful as the only numerical one, it’s still a system that becomes extremely negative as soon as you notice it.
I can only repeat since you have clearly no clue what I’m talking about. It’s made in a way how scaling enemies haven’t been done to date and it’s the solution to the conundrum it usually presents.
So throw away that ignorance of ‘I know before I see it’, take a look and then talk about it Their implementation not only takes care of the issues usually arising from such a system but actually turns it into a game-enhancing mechanic making it better then without it in there.
A simple “no rest for the wicked level scaling” search brings me not a description of their level scaling system, but an endless list of player complaints.
I guess, you would be better properly explaining what’s so great about this system, that tell people to try it when you have no idea if they have any interest in the game in the first place.
In older games, there have already been lots of cases where games don’t strictly level scale, but change what monsters you encounter in what amounts based on character level. For example, Neverwinter Nights already did that. And yes, while you didn’t notice it, the system worked well, but as soon as you noticed it, it didn’t work anymore.
Sure, I’ll explain it then! I’ve written above about it but I’ll go into detail on how the workings go and why their specific level scaling makes sense.
So, No Rest for the Wicked is a mixture between diablo-clone ARPGs and Souls-likes. You’re fighting your ways through areas, kill bosses in slow-paced combat enforcing positioning a lot but also drop equipment in the style of a diablo-clone.
Each area of the game has a specific type of enemies there, a specific ‘faction’ which manages to spread out there, deciding on the level of the area.
As you progress the game you do quests, those quests cause you to for example kill a bandit leader in a sewer area, this bandit leader though held back the flood of monstrosities from the sewer area. So… you kill him and that means suddenly instead of bandits you instead find those sewer creatures in the area.
It’s a form of level scaling but implemented in a immersive way, enforcing you to prepare to a spike in difficulty if you go along and remove bosses, pushing the new ‘norm’ up to the expected level you have at the time.
So, you got enemies scaling with you but also actually look forward to it rather then feeling scammed out of your immersion and the feeling of progression and power. You can still find some of the weaker enemies strewn about which clearly showcase your leap in power over time.
It solves 2 major things there:
The immersion issue. Usually level scaling feels awful because the same enemies we already beat much earlier become surprisingly tanky and dangerous, depriving us of our feeling of getting stronger.
It puts the scaling time into the hands of the player, hence player-agency and making it their decision. Not ready? Don’t kill the boss of the area yet. Done it? Oh, interesting, this new faction takes up the sudden free space.
