Farmin 2x7 feels very unrewarding

General
1

Hi guys,
first i wanna say i love the game iam with it for a long time had a little break of about 1,5y and came back and its even more fun now. But there is one thing that bugs me.

Farming double tier 7 items including the unique etc. feels somehow very unrewarding.
Let me explain why. Iam using the imprinting system, iam using the prophecies as CoF, Turtle, Tower, Trove, Barnackle etc…

But then you get like 4-8 good 2xLP uniques with 400k-600k favour (or w/e how much).
Then you get the 2xT7 bases and start crafting so much luck on this layer already (rune of removal or tries with redemption etc.)
Then you finally get the exalted candidates go to julra …aaaaaaaaaand ofc not a single of the
4-8 2xLP uniques get the both stats you want. MEH…

Ok now i get it RNG and stuff and iam fine with some RNG as the game is about farming and also some luck BUT it feels like there are too many layers of luck too feel it like a clean progress.
When you do 1xT7 its kind of straight forward.

So what do you think would it be good to get some “help” like it was done with the guaranteed 1xT7?

Idea/suggestion:
I had stuff in mind like giving a possibility to melt two 1xT7 items into one which then results in a single item with 2xT7 (maybe losing all FP).
Or juicing somehow the julra slam maybe by sacrificing additional Uniques so you boost up the chance of slamming other T7/6 stats etc…

Just for reference i play one char of every base class now and only my mage has decent 2xT7 equip and i can do Uber Aberroth on that one all others are more like 1xT7+1xT5/6 and so on.

Have a great day everyone peace out! :slight_smile:

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No one farming 2xT7 or is everyone just happy with how it is? :smiley:

4

People which are fine with it know not to state ‘I think it’s fine’ as they’ll be ripped apart verbally by several others coming in, including me.

This discussion is one I’ve had around a dozen times by now since release with separate individuals, the LE late-game progression is absolutely atrocious.

To be entirely clear here, it was too short before exalted - hence dorp only - items were introduced. But EHG didn’t realize the sheer magnitude of impact which having a drop-only outcome provides compared to a crafting-based approach as the whole game was built around before.

We’re not talking about 10-20% scaling difference, we’re talking about a magnitude of 5+ here, which means 500% difference at least, and that’s putting it very mildly.
This is a extreme jump in acquisition difficulty with nothing in the middle. At first you’re not even at 4 T5 items and suddenly you get exalted items introduced, which have a bad inherent scaling between tiers as well (T5 to T7 is as powerful as T1 to T5 roughly.).

This means you’re not even prepared to step into the ‘exalted stage’ when it’s introduced. And then it only plays around exalteds as all other items become nigh worthless. For one… exalted affixes are mandatory for legendary items, so acquisition of fitting ones compared to normal item acquisition is extremely out of line. And then the scarcity of fitting drops - since variety is extreme - causes very very long segments of ‘loot drought’ happening, which is turning people off as there is no feeling of progress or success happening.

So yeah, it’s a given it’s bad.

The solutions have also been presented by now.

Either extreme investment into mechanics which properly scale from the moment exalted get introduced, counteracting them hence.
Or complete revamping of the itemization acquisition system and removal of exalted affixes in total. (Means many more tiers for drops then the current 8, likely around 15-20 for the common ones, causing variety through drops + crafting in combination)

1 Like
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Thank you for the feedback now i feel less left alone. :smiley:

What do you think about my ideas?
Like melting two 1xT7 into one item to have an easier way to get 2xT7.
And/or boosing the SLAM by offering more of the same Unique for example.

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Well, core-wise it’s a fun idea, but it’s also the problem with korean games where it needs to be RNG-hell.

Initially it feels great but turns into massive repetition while shoving that into your face. The fail-state is still there - which is the major problem many people have, a feeling of failure rather then one of a lack of success or success - and it would just exchange one problem with another, the core staying the same though.

I think that the separate layers of RNG simply are ‘too much’ by now.
We got base item.
We got total affix tiers.
We got exalted/non-exalted.
We got FP value.

That means 4 separate steps and we haven’t even started adjusting the item in any way.
1 Is a direct ‘fail state’, if it’s not exalted it doesn’t even need to be displayed (as a usable item, it’s only at best shattering for materials).
1 works in combination with Affix tiers, which is the FP value. Low value + low tiers? Immediate fail-state. You have basically no chance for it to become something anyway, even with nigh perfect crafts happening.

But then it goes into crafting already.
Most items become legendaries. 1 LP is easy now, guaranteed… which is counterproductive as it just pushes the issue back. Making 2… or 3 also guaranteed would be an option… but that causes the game to become too short. It’s suddenly comparatively very easy to have a successful craft.
So legendaries can only go 2 ways reasonably: Full RNG (hence backtracking the 1 LP guarantee and working out the issues in another place) or no RNG (guaranteed hit every time).

That means there’s only Affix tiers, exalted/non exalted and FP left.

So next let’s take FP… FP works in conjunction with Affix tiers. High FP makes more crafts succeed simply, hence it’s a direct reduction in time investment again. LE struggles with time investment already though. Hence not a good option, so we can remove it to be significantly changed. Mildly? Sure! But that’s fiddling with miniscule balance rather then the serious changes that are needed.

Affix Tiers on the other hand cause issues if we change em. Less tiers means you can likely adjust your item more… but basically everything is closer to ‘white’ and hence won’t become a successful item. Then we could increase FP, which makes it a pure crafting centric play though… oof again. If we increase it we cannot even craft on most items reliably anymore, hence it’s ‘this drop is as it is’ with maybe a removal and praying to hit the right thing but not increasing Affixes, also not optimal.
Also not a great idea hence.

Which leaves only exalted/non exalted actually as a hinge to change things.
The issues started because of it… hence it can be solved because of it.

My suggestion has always been the increase in Tiers, substantially. This increases drop variety and allows more gradual improvements. It also allows to adjust FP costs for individual crafts easier. Moving from T4 to T5 and loosing 20 FP at once? Atrocious, instant brick basically.
Reduction of FP cost because more steps are taken is hence a viable thing. Keeps mild RNG (if it costs 3-5 per step and you hot 5 it’ll cost you a few steps but you have a clear idea if a craft can turn out well or not, nigh guarantee with good ones) and allows the complete removal of ‘drop only’ tiers, leaving only primal Affixes as special ones… since you know… they’re special.

Obviously that pushes a few extra things along. Rare Affixes can’t have so many tiers or it would feel bad to acquire them, hence few tiers. Common Affixes with many tiers and small increments of power improvement instead.
All is potentially craftable… but adjustment to FP means only ‘good base drops’ can become good end results anyway.
But since we got different tiers (rather then universally 7) a system countin up isn’t working. You would never know if T5 is the highest or T16. Hence you need to count numbers down. T1 is always the highest, T0 is primal. As other games of the genre do it.

This would solve the major issues but needs very substantial changes for balance… which EHG doesn’t do well.

The alternative is only including many many more systems to handle exalted drops… until they become worthless and you gotta expand the system in total to a senseless degree solely to counter the easier acquisition of items.

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Yeah the high amount of steps and rng is imho just too much.
EHG shouldnt make it too complicated because you are right then they wont be able to easily balance it but there must be some kind of adjustment done.

For me it just feels so weird that out of 6 toons (as of now) only one has several good 2xT7 and the rest is just on “semi end game” builds.
One example is my flay lich i tried to get a good traitors dagger and i have literally 9 of them with 2 LP and always the second T7 was the wrong one.
I wont even get into how much time i needed to get the Unqiue bases and exalteds for the slams with decent stats.
And then i just get garbage. While my Sorc almost hit everything on like 1-4 tries.
It just feels meh…

Well lets hope EHG gets more ppl and some for balancing too.

8

Yep, same here. I’m playing mostly offline by now, always wanted MG to ‘work’ simply. I enjoy providing items and getting rewarded for knowing what is wanted or not.
Sadly both the clunky UI (price checking is still not great even with the checking, and there’s too many clicks for listing as well) and the self-destructive setup EHG caused by having no repeated substantial gold sinks which are worthwhile to use it just becomes a overinflated place which has either no supply or too much supply of things, leading to basically nothing being in the middle.
And if you got barely anything in the middle price ranges you can hardly acquire the funds to get to the top price ranges to acquire the things you’re lacking, the market is there to make up for the difference in drop-rate compared to CoF after all… and that difference is absolutely ridiculous.

So nowadays I’m solely using CoF, offline, gotta say the worst thing had been for one of my characters where I played 200+ hours to find the first 2T7 item that actually had the right affixes… and that one bricked.
You can imagine how ‘motivated’ one is after that.

We also don’t have ways around it at all. Competitors have all vastly superior crafting systems which make the player feel like they’re not ‘failing’.
I’ll showcase it shortly in order from worst to best for 'the casual crafting experience.

PoE 2:
Mostly gamba, it’s worse then LE. It’s just drops + hail-mary attempts on crafting. With very few exceptions (which exist though) to ever keep a base currently still.
They screwed that part up entirely, which is the fault of removing alteration orbs and meta-crafting which PoE 1 offered.

D4:
You first temper, then enchant, then masterwork.
Tempering is your RNG stage. You throw it in, you try to get the right outcome, you throw your item away if you don’t get the right outcome.
Afterwards enchanting is simply throwing endless materials onto it until it rolls what you exactly want, it has no chance to break anymore. Pure resource sink simply. No ‘I failed’ button, just a ‘I didn’t succeed’ one. Seems the same at first glance… makes a massive difference though, that’s to remember.
Masterwork then can screw you over again, which takes ages to get a ‘near perfect item’ hence.
Comparable to LE long-term but feels vastly better for the acquisition of ‘decent’ items.

PoE 1:
If we take away the pure knowledge base needed (which is substantial) then all you need is a good item base and resources. PoE has so-called ‘safety steps’ for a majority of crafts. Not all… but very very many, especially the baseline.
You can either craft the common hail-mary attempts which most do, slamming onto it in hope something good comes out… or craft step-by-step which is expensive.
This allows long-term players to have distinct goals. And the game provides several ways to do so. Be it with spamming on a single base… or for cheap bases nowadays the hail-mary attempt of recombinating items into top-tier bases with 3 fixed T1 Suffixes/Prefixes.
People complain about percentiles as low as ‘1%’ or less for a good outcome there… but ultimately it’s not only doable but cheaper then most crafting options available… if you know how to acquire the gold and poweder to do it.
From there it’s RNG fiesta though… but that stage? Outside of very specific crafts you cannot loose this position anymore. 3 T1 is a ‘safespot’ for most crafts. It just seems less existing because many try to do the ‘special’ options like double influenced hail-mary crafts nowadays, which provide more power but cost several mirrors or pure sudden luck to achieve.

TL:I:
You start your crafting and you can re-roll the base Affixes as much as you want. Basically ‘drop me the item again.’ This can be done while keeping a single Affix guaranteed on it. So you basically search for a base which fits, that has your top-tier Affix on it and then roll for a second (or even third) top-tier Affix until it hits. That’s decent gear already and will get you far. From there you can get into the next stage of crafting which is targeted… and can be repeated endlessly as well. And then you enchant it, which is guaranteed. You got stuff like making something into a ‘T0’ Affix at the cost of another, which is gamba… but that’s pure end-game grind, you’ll be easily 100-200 hours into your character by then.

You see how steadily we get more and more ‘safespots’ of crafting in? Substantial time investment but the systems take all a long long time to accomplish something… but those with the safespots at least let you keep ‘something’ long-term. Not as often important for a single league… but for playing hundreds of hours, which you’ll acrue if you’re playing the game repeatedly after all. If you’re a ‘I start fresh and play 20 hours per season’ player it’s unimportant for you anyway, the whole topic doesn’t even exist, but it’s keeping those which actually want to invest time and money into their singular-game hobby that have to be catered to, in any life-service game.