For now i have 74 hours in this game. Not insane number, especially after ~2000 hours in PoE, but its only beginning 
This game is awesome, but i think some mechanics in Echoes web is annoying.
I’m talking about a straight line from a lot of echoes, especially after creating a huge web when you just want to check all its ends. It seems to me that it would be nicer if the straight lines towards the end of the web consisted of a maximum of 3-4 echoes.
What do you think about this?
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Welcome to the forum.
Not entirely sure what you mean?
Do you mean that when nearing the end of the echo web, a branch shouldnt have more than 3 to 4 echos if it doesnt have another branch to be discovered?
I.e. dead ends shouldnt have more than 4 echos including the Shade echo?
If I am understanding correctly, I am not sure why this is an issue? What problem does this cause? (trying to understand what you mean by “nicer”)
Sory for my bad english, just learning it 
Yeah, i’m about too long dead ends. Sometimes i have about 12 echoes long dead end, without branches. Its not an issue, its annoying. So it can be more enjoyable if it have some limitation on number of echoes without branches. Or some big reward at the end of long echoes line (without branches, again).
So it’s more clear? Again sory for my bad english, I’ve only been studying it for a couple of months
Ah.
Nothing wrong with your English - its fine. I was just trying to understand exactly what you meant.
It doesnt bother me personally.
There currently isnt any “reward” at the end of a branch - its always a Shade Echo.
The earlier echos themselves are meant to be the reward so unless you are looking for good Shade echos to change corruption, it shouldnt really matter if a dead end is 3 or 10 echos long. There isnt really a difference is there? You dont get rewarded for branches short or long - dead ends are all the same - there is no difference.
The web is randomly generated when its first started so perhaps the devs could make it have “more” branches, but it wouldnt really change anything imho.
What about it is annoying to you?
Yeah, but once you’ve created a big web for target farming, you’re just looking for Vessel of Chaos or Vessel of Memory. If you have branches, this counts as a web extension and more echoes for reroll. But long dead ends do not expand the web. In addition, the time to check if there is a Vessel of Chaos is stretched. If you farm bosses it doesn’t matter i think.
Judging by your answers, I’m probably too casual or spoiled player
Oh, i cant reply multiple persons. So its in my previous message. Its annoying to check long dead end for Vessel of Chaos or Vessel of Memory. And without branches you don’t get rewards for it. Common rewards for echoes not interesting for me, but if it have less echo in front of a dead end or branch, it would be much nicer to go there
You sort of can - You can just quote multiple people in the same reply. If you highlight a bit of text in a comment, a Quote button will appear, and then insert the quote at your cursor in your comment box.
Your #1 screenshot shows a single chain that goes through 8 nodes before it dead-ends. If that were instead two chains that dead-ended after 4 nodes without giving you a Vessel of Chaos or Memory, would you still be annoyed? If not, why not?
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Oh, thank you for this advice!
Yes, it will be much more pleasant for me to play. Count starts from branch, and for now i dont want to go there, because I imagine that there can be a lot of echoes that are useless for me (as I mentioned above, I had something like 12 echoes with no branches and a dead end). Yes, there may randomly appear an echo with exalted item or even unique target item (bow for me now). But this happens too rarely. If I know that there will be a maximum of 4 echoes before a dead end, it won’t count as wasted time. Or maybe if it have guaranteed Exalted or unique echoe in front of long dead end (8+ as an example).
So maybe my biggest problem is that I don’t know how long this dead end can be. And insufficient reward if it was long and useless
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What I’m trying to get at is - Why does one 8 echo branch feel annoying, but two 4 echo branches is ok? In both cases, you did 8 echoes without getting what you wanted. What makes the two feel different to you?
I think its because i know, its have maximum 4 echoes. So if I choose between 8 echo branch and two 4 echo branches its same (but for some reason i still prefer two 4 echo branches :D). But if I choose between two 4 echo branches and one of unknown length and usefulness, I will choose two 4 echo branches
Hello @MizukiShiina and welcome to the LE Community.
You are facing a issue that annoys me a lot as well.
I did report this very elaborately in the past and @EHG_Mike did share some insight in why this is happening.
I am not entirely sure if this will get “fixed” or at least changed in a way to make it less impactful.
If you are intersted here is my initial thread:
I think this is a issue that a vast majority of people do not face, because it only really come into play, once you don’t only want to defeat the highest shade possible but really want to discover as much of a echo web as possible to make the best use out of both Vessels (the more uncovered echeos you have, the more impact each individual Vessel has)
So I do understand that this is not priority for the devs, but I really really hope they cna look into this at a later point.
Since the introduction of legendaries in 0.8.4 this became even more of an issue, because really high end farming for Exalted/Unique nodes become a lot more interesting and worhtwhile. (Having 10-20 Specific Unique/Set item nodes discoverd simultaneously makes using Vessels sooo impactful)
For me personally its less about if 2x 4 or 1x 8 linear paths are more or less annoying, but its about the fudnamental system of MoF not being as fun anymore.
Echo modifiers are very impactful, especially on high corruption and being able to navigate the echo web and evalute different possible path with the best rewards/risk/difficulty ratio is what makes the MoF system very interesing.
All of this is taken away with long linear paths like this.
On top of that, as I explained in my initial thread that I posted above, some of these linears paths are actually not going “deeper” but sideways or even closer to the staring point.
Sometimes this can lead to having 3-5 nodes linear paths suddenly not going deeper anymore and then it feels like “wasted time”, because Vessels have a lot higher chance of spawning on great depths.
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You kinda do get a bigger “reward” from doing a shade that’s at the end of a longer chain from the beginning. The further a Shade node is from the start the more corruption it will give so if you are trying to push corruption in an empowered mono (which you will eventually) you’ll want to go as far from the centre as possible. That said, purely numerical rewards usually aren’t as valued by most people and the amount could always be reworked if the devs changed how the mono webs were generated.
Wow, its impressive work, im about your post. You did a great job of explaining what you need/what you get and how frustrating it is
Thank you, now I know that someone shares my feelings about this.
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Yeah, but if you target farming some uniques, its no matter, how much corruption you get. You want just check for Vessel of Chaos or Memory and move on. When branch have a lot of echoes in front of dead end, you just waste your time.
For now i reset entire Web, when I no longer see crossroads. Creating a new web seems much easier and faster than checking all dead ends with no forks. Which already feels like lost profit, because there could be Vessel of Chaos.
I am not saying that the web should be infinitely large. It’s just takes too long to check all dead ends, when web can no longer expand.
Ok. Looking for Vessels on a big web. This is something you left out of your OP. It explains a lot of the frustration you mention.
I dont look for Vessels specifically when I do monoliths. I usually just find the farthest Shade Echo i can and resetting the web each time to see if I am lucky. I seldom explore all the nodes in a web unless I have reached a target corruption level and even then I farm the boss so stability is more important to me.
I HATE that Vessels require you to reopen the echos in order instead of just being able to do the rerolled echos - this irritates me so much that I dont do vessels unless there is a quick win of a group of unique echo rewards that are easy to get to. But thats a different problem.
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I understand you! Its so boring to redo all the pass for some cool echoes. But if you have 2-3 Vessels of Chaos, then on the web you can get clusters of useful echoes, and take only them. That’s why I want to check all dead ends.
And yes, I missed a lot of important information in the post. In the future I will make my posts more detailed.
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But the rewards is based on the relative depth from the starting point.
So the length of a given linear path does not correlate to the rewards you get at the end.
If that would always be the case, this issue would be a little bit less annoying, but it would still make MoF way less fun comapred to a very “spider-web-esq” creation even at higher depths.
So even if the end point of a long chains has no direct connection to the starting point, but its still closer to the starting point then the beginning of the chain, its rewards (and potential for rare echoes) is lower.
Here is a quote from my other post I posted above (which was the reason why I started my thread back then)
And now the absolute cherry on top, which made me start this post.
23 linear nodes, which were even decending in depth and resulted in a dead end, that is just 10 echoes deep into the echo web from the starting point.
This branch was literally wasting 30min playtime for nothing
The green number is the amount of stability the echo gives (which is the best indicator for its “depths”). And the blue circle at the top right is the starting point.
Most of the echoes in this chain are going “sideways” so no increase in rewards and every 2nd or 3rd one is going “shallower” and the end result is a waste of 30 minutes of playtime with no actual good rewards.
I also find the current echo webs very annoying for the same reasons :
- the lack of choice in the pathing.
- it makes the farming with vessels of chaos and memory a lot less efficient. You have to spend a lot of time and get lucky to get decent value from them, it’s often not worth it.
I would LOVE more connections between branches
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