Dying in an echo, and having to start it all over knowing that you won’t get anything for doing so, is a pretty awful feeling. It wouldn’t be bad if dying didn’t mean you have to start over. But with the current system having it so that you do… What if dying took 10% of your gold, or something? I dunno exactly what, but something where you’re still punished, but it doesn’t sap the willpower to go back in and complete it.
I say this as someone who’s Alt F4’d a good handful of times after dying to some desynced green ball, and then respawning at the monolith and knowing that I have to start it over and get nothing for it. I’m certainly not the only one who feels that negative weight.
I love LE having no death penalty, losing the echo reward is not losing out on anything. its you gambling on getting a reward, and losing.
They have said their ideology with “Death penalties” is that you never lose anything that you have already obtained. So losing gold or exp that you have in your pocket is losing something you have already gained. All the stakes for death are losing out on rewards you have not gotten yet.
You are essentially feeling bad that you lost something that wasnt even yours to begin with, as you had not obtained it yet.
I’m fine with a penalty, and I’m even saying to remove one IF another is replacing it.
I don’t feel bad that I lost out on a reward. I feel bad that I have to replay it, even though I already lost.
Imagine you’re in school, and your teacher has you take a test. You fail. The teacher now has you retake the test until you pass. But your grade will only ever be the fail. And it was… I dunno, a 50 question test.
I can see the murderous gazes of MG players going in your direction after that comment
The only thing you loose out on are a miniscule echo reward which is kinda worthless anyway and some stability in the timeline.
The mobs sitll reward items and experience (hence favor) so it’s not really a loss. At best you loose around 1/4th of the echo total when you play around 250-300 corruption, above it gets even less and less with the increased amounts of high value rewards.
I’m just trying to farm some imprints, and spending 8 minutes in an Echo, dying to some random nothing burger near the end, and then having to start all over again knowing that I get no reward, is giving me PTSD of like… League of Legends ranked games, where someone int feeds top lane cuz their “main” got banned, then the jungler DC’s because now they’re mad, and I’m sitting there like… “I lose this game, and now I have to HOPE that my next game is not only legitimate and clean, but that I can push a victory, and all of this is to say that 60 minutes from now I am hopefully right back where I started from the beginning of my night.”
It’s… obviously not that extreme, but it still just reminds me of that.
Okay, I’ll get over it, carry on, folks. May I leave with one final suggestion: Maybe if you fail an Echo, it just clears itself, and you can move on to the next one. (Or maybe it rerolls??) And no, I don’t think anyone’s going to decide that kamikazi’ing a node is the most efficient method to do anything important.
Yeah, I understand the feeling. I’ve got that too after playing other ARPGs, it’s common to provide any sort of clear-cut downside for death.
In LE that’s not really the case, but the penalty used is annoyance plainly spoken. Because of the reduced density maps feels a bit empty… and that feels like a waste of time.
If EHG takes some measures for that it should be fine, but the rewards are really non-essential.
Agree. Let’s return d2 style - when you die you drop all gear etc. Happy now?
Jeez… guys you losing nothing on death except some random echo and that is still bad for you?
And “dying to some random nothing burger near the end” realy? you dying to some random burger? Don’t start all over, you have damn unlimited grid of echoes.
“I dunno exactly what” so you want to change death penalty, but don’t have any ideas? nice.
I gave you some ideas: -10% exp on death with deleveling possible + random gear drop from character (not stash) + echo unabled to complete at all (even without rewards). LE is truly easy game without punishment system at all. Now you can even make oryboss echo / harbinger echoes appear on grid like mushrooms after rain. Still not enough for ya? Sigh
One more: repetitive grind is a part of the game genre. If you feel like “I don’t want to repeat this” then you playing wrong game.
While I disagree with OP this is something that is not true at all
If you are target farming Uniques, Exalted Items or Idols and died on one of those specific rewards you will lose a very good reward, that is not miniscule.
All LE’s current death penalty is doing: It makes you öless efficient. And nowadays people always want to be efficient and not “waste” time. I still think its the perfect penalty, even though I wouldn’t mind a exp penalty on death for the higher levels, because reaching level 100 has no meaning in LE.
Honestly, if I fail an echo for whatever reason (disconnect, lag, being attacked by mobs while in the nemesis interface despite checking everything is clear) I just ignore that echo. Simply no point in doing it any more. its SO easy to just go elsewhere/reset the web. Me and my wife got randomly disconnected about an hour ago JUST after we started the first floor of a nemesis tower and we lost the whole node because of no fault of our own.
Genuinely failing a node should have implications but getting DC’ed shouldn’t. The servers just arent anywhere near stable enough right now to justify punishing a player for the server disconnecting you randomly.
Don’t woven echoes let you retry them if you die? Or is it just some of them? Haven’t died in one yet, so I don’t know.
Personally, I think a possible solution to this (not that it really needs solving, there are barely any penalties to dying already) is to simply count the echo as done if you die. You don’t get the reward, but you can move on to the next echo and you don’t need to feel like you’re wasting time on an echo that will give you no rewards.
The exalted and the idol nodes are the only worthwhile ones which actually do something.
Idols for class specific ones.
Exalts since actually some viable ones tend to drop.
And for CoF? Absolutely useless comparably to the prophecies which outperform for target farming methods by the time you reach 150c so massively that it’s not even funny.
Yeah, that would be optimal in my eyes as well.
Lost rewards but advanced the web at least.
Yes, dying feels bad and losing out on the reward isn’t making me happy either, but it feels like an appropriate punishment - I messed up (or got too greedy with high corruption), so the game punishes me by giving me an Echo node that is less efficient to play. I don’t HAVE to try it again, but I do need to engage with it, if I want to get to a Node right behind it maybe.
A death penalty that takes my already obtained gold (or for example EXP) would be an incredible downgrade in my opinion - Instead of just giving me an obstacle that I need to plan around, the game would now retroactively take away my time spent playing, nullifying progress. That would suck.
As much as that is true, it would create an imbalance between both.
This, like many other things, wouldn’t be an issue if MG didn’t use gold as currency, but as things are now, it wouldn’t be fair for someone to sell a 1B item and then lose 100M from a random 1-shot.
It would actually have an effect on gameplay, encouraging people to play more defensive builds, rather than what is fun.
A gold sink, not a mechanic which only affects MG players substantially while CoF players can entirely ignore it, like so many imbalances between the factions we already have (and shouldn’t be there in the first place).
As @DJSamhein mentioned, it would affect them more then CoF, and that’s simply not a good state.
The current state is that an XP penalty would be the optimal route to affect both in the same manner, but that’s also not a fun option.
So what is a solution already on the market which actually has impact?
A ‘bonus system’.
You run echos and each survived echo provides a bonus, up to a maximum. For example 25 in a row.
Each provides for example a ‘2% quantity multiplier’ to not affect the rarity spread but the overall created items. At 25 echos this would relate to 50%, which would be a massive boon.
When you die you loose that and have to restart from scratch.
And since GGG already found out that such mechanics lead to players avoiding boss-fights for the danger they pose EHG can go the exact same route to alleviate this issue, which is that this bonus doesn’t reset when you attempt a bossfight of any kind, be it the shade, the woven bosses, Aberroth or timeline bosses. Neither getting raised nor lost there. Solely echos being influenced.
They could even go so far as to only have the bonus affected by normal echos, and having no effect in woven echos or bossfights at all, making the core gameplay loop more rewarding while allowing to tinker more with rewards for extra content otherwise for example.
I think that would be one of the best solutions there overall, because lets be fair… the echo rewards? Nice idea but also with a nice slew of percepted downsides, despite having basically no effect on overall gameplay.
Which is actually inefficient. Using the favour causes you to get to max level quicker. You actually loose out on total rewards for the playtime this way.
I recommend using prophecies when you reach Rank 7 to increase the chance for T7 affixes simply, from then onward using the prophecies to skip ahead as far as possible is more efficient without loosing out substantially.
