So my question is and what i like to discuss is what kind of nerf do you think the EQ bear should get?
IMO, the stun and/or the damage should get the nerf hammer although not too much just make it in line with other builds DPS. Just don’t ruin the interaction and synergies between the skills involved. But, i don’t know how it would get implemented while also not ruining other builds. So any ideas?
Oh, disclaimer: I only play EQ on werebear druid, so i don’t know much about other class who utilize it.
Yeah, they’ve said before that the reason they didn’t do it in 0.8.2 was because there’s going to be changes to Werebear in 0.8.3 so they’re waiting for then to do it all at once.
Yeah, i read that one too. But i’m curious, since you are pretty active in the forum. Do you have an opinion on this? What kind a nerf do you think the EQ bear should get?
Yeah, it needs a nerf. IMO, the issue is the much shorter cooldown on Werebear’s charge compared to Fury Leap, if that was changed to 3-4s (like most movement skills) then it would be less of an issue. Or they could put a 3s cooldown on the EQ proc from Bhuldar’s Wrath (ideally just for Primalists so that if you wanted to make a non-Primalist EQ build then you could do it & go nuts on the CDR but you’d have an unspec’d Earthquake for much lower damage).
I think if they nerf the CD, 2 sec CD with all the CDR available in game is good enough since it would forced EQ bear to build around the CDR and indirectly nerf the DPS as well. Also, why i think 2 sec CD is enough because you are locked of other skills in werebear form which already limited your build so much, if it was too long of CD then it will pretty much kill the build because werebear skill limitation. Of course i more incline to agree with you if the werebear rework is not too limiting for werebear like what we have right now.
Edit: what i meant by all CD available, is including all the CD from shards, skills, etc.
At the moment, the most CDR you can get for fury leap is ~57% (25% from the new unique boots, 18% in the tree & 14% on a helm prefix) which takes the 7s cooldown down to ~4.5s plus a reset on a “short leap kill” (not sure if this counts kills from the proc’d EQ or not) once every 5s & 20% chance to reset on kill once every 5s. So you’ll have a 4.5s cooldown plus a “free reset” every 5s so lets just halve the effective cooldown of Fury Leap to ~2.2s if there’s trash around.
Charge can be got down to ~2.3s cooldown (150% CDR in the Werebear tree + 14% from a helm prefix) without trash, so every 2.3s you get a massive attack for free. If you had to pay the cost (or part of the cost) for EQ, that would balance it.
Earthquake’s damage & the amount of % more modifiers is balanced around it having a fairly high mana cost which is completely negated by the proc from the weapon.
We should wait & see what the devs do with the Druid forms rework, but with how things are now, I think that a 3-4s cooldown on the proc would be reasonable given you don’t pay the mana cost for EQ.
I am pretty however they change werebear, whatever movement skill it has will have a higher cooldown and that should already balance that build pretty well.
Yeah, if the cooldown for any updated movement skill the Werebear gets is around the usual 3-7s, that’ll be fine. Or maybe give the Werebear more options to gain mana in Bear form & make the proc cost a % of the EQ mana cost.
Well, if they retract the no mana regen think on the werebear form on rework i wouldn’t mind paying the mana cost at all actually and lower dps or whatever other nerf the devs might come up with, because it also open up other build like cast maelstrom every few sec from gears and idols.
And yeah i also agree that we need to wait for the bear rework too.
Hypothetically, right now with that kind of DPS and Stun locking enemies, you can theoretically reach 1,5 cd with 2 CDR prefix on helm and from skills which is pretty absurd. But, if with the same CDR prefix on helm and skills and you could reach 2s-ish CD i can live with that, without doing any major rework on the bear. Although to be frank i prefer the same cooldown just without the Stun locking (which give you 100% inc. damage btw) and reduce the DPS from druid werebear skills or passive that synergies with it. Like ferocity for example.
Charge cooldown with 3/3 skill node is exactly 2sec. - 0,2 sec for general CDR Prefix and another -0,2 sec for Primalist CDR Prefix (1.6 sec with 2x T5)
Not knowing what they´ll do with it in future, I hope the CD will stay at 2 Sec (without Gear). As someone who pushed both EQ Bear and regular Swipe Bear both to 500+ i can definitely say that the regular Swipe Version needs the low CD to be competitive. Just thinking about super mobile Sentinel for example (which is awesome!)
Best nerf in my opinion would be either Mana Cost or a CD proc on the weopon (not the movement skill!)
Yeah, when they nerf the entangle with paying mana cost, they also nerf the only way werebear gain mana without going 100% crit on swipe to gain mana in bear form.
Wait what if they change the swipe on crit to gain mana but in exchange nerfing the DPS on top of CD nerf? I could also live with that tbh.
Edit: CMIIW, but i think it also imposible to get 100% crit if you have the mace as your weapons.
Although i kinda agree with your CD proc, but if you change the CD proc on the weapon you also nerf other build though which is kinda bad, since it will become a multiple nerf builds, no?
It’s only a Primalist that can use it though, any other class that uses the weapon will have a much lower damage version due to not being able to specialise it or be able to “manually” cast it so they only get 1 free EQ every ~3s.
Though a Lich could use it twice every ~3s. Has @heavy ever tried an EQ Reaper?
It depends. If Leap CD is in general for example around 4 sec and the weapon would proc every 4sec it would be okay (not counting CD Reset).
If it were Christmas today i would wish that the whole interaction between a transformed Druid (Charge) and one of the most powerful and mana expensive skills (Earthquake) would not work at all. Non transform is cool. This absolutely not!
1: the idea behind it is just not esthetic when you understand what i mean
2: even with a nerf it might just be too easy to push that in Arena for example (just takes more time) compared to the regular Werebear builds with same gear. You can check my post “The Armor Hoarder” for that if you want to. The Armor Hoarder Arena 500+ - #14 by Amun
sorry but the gameplay is 100% dumb too pushed to 759 with literally 1 finger…
As i said, i never try other class with EQ build. So idk about the interaction on the other class as well. But, you both right i guess, as long as the CD isn’t above the other skills CD i don’t think that it would mater much then.
Oh, what if the devs change the 3 EQ proc in 1 cast thing and make it only available on direct cast or only available when you are not transform and also put the no aftershock on it while transform as well. Does it make it better somehow if we keep the 2s CD? since it would only proc once every 2 sec right? How about it?
You can deal like 500k crits with it now and even non crits without geared in dmg deal still so much dmg. I did not test every dmg version of it but it should be a lot of dmg after that. And dont forget that this is just a passive proc.
And like i said the gameplay is way too easy and the reward is soooo big. Only nerfing numbers wont cahnge the gameplay enough. At least in my opinion. It feels like EQ Bear is the tankiest class (non block) but now its kinda ranged on top too… It´s ridiculous.
Once you have the weapon (guaranteed drop) and now how to play, you´ll push forever. My EQ Bear was like lv 79 when starting the push and had not the blessings, passives and so on and can push double the amount of waves while being 100 times easier isnt good for a competitive arpg.
I know and it is absurd, to be that tanky and still have that kinda DPS.
I think so far, it is pretty much save to conclude that the EQ bear nerf should also depends on the bear rework, which kinda sad since we have to wait long enough for it in 8.3 or 8.4.
Man i was hoping that it wasn’t the case because i’m sucks at waiting, lol.
I´ve been wating since the beginning of last patch
You should try the regular Swipe Version of Werebear. It grants a much better practice. It also feels way more intuitive and you will feel way more like playing a “Werebear”. Lets hope this will be the same after the changes
If you wanna give it a try, I explained everything you need to know about it in the other post Or just ask if you have any questions.
Reap has 3 second cooldown baseline, which can be reduced to 2 seconds with the skill spec tree.
If you combine that with CDR affix from helmet, use the Shade Unique Boots and Transplant CDR idols you could have a reap with under 2 second CD + a Transplant with ~2,5 sec cooldown.
I did not even bother with that kind of build because I simply don’t like it thematically.
But I am pretty sure it’s super strong.
Especially because Transplant already can be a main dmg skill and both EQ and Transplant can be scaled by the same damage type.
But I am the type of player that would never ever play a build just for being powerful. I solely play builds that I like from a thematic standpoint.
I’m not sure though since though you do have a big weapon, you won’t have the skill tree which gives the skill an additional ~900% more damage (plus 3 hits equivalent to an additional 295% more damage), that’s like, around 1/30 of the damage a Primalist can get, even assuming the non-Primalist can get the same amount of flat damage (which they can’t due to Ancestral Weaponry giving +50 cold damage, compared to Necrotic Energy’s +20 necrotic melee damage).
Transplant is only a main damage skill if you can get a decent amount of flat spell damage, which requires either a staff or a caster main hand & crit offhand.
I don’t think it’ll be that powerful, even being able to proc Earthquake more frequently. Prove me wrong!
