Monolith bosses do not have a guarnateed key drop, but 1 key drop is very likely.
The likehood of key dropped by MoF bosses is heavily imapcted by %inc. item rarity.
So dropping one key more commonly or having higher chances of dropping 2 keys is very much imapcted by %inc. item rarity.
Hello Zaodon,
While ‘technically’ possible to not get any keys in 1,000 monos, it should not realistically be possible. I believe there is three possibilities here:
1.) Perception bias: the 1,000 mono count may be including monoliths ran before keys became available, and due to poor luck within a smaller window during available timeframe, it’s creating a much more negative view of the RNG than exists causing an inflation of the interpretation of negative RNG
2.) Something in your game files is not correct. I would recommend verifying your game files through steam, and ensure your character files as well have not been corrupted or tampered with by your system.
3.) You’ve basically won the lottery 10 times in a row, in a bad way. I don’t know the exact odds off the top of my head - but as mentioned, not one key in 1,000 monos should not realistically be possible. If you’re able to provide any sort of evidence of this kind of RNG, we would certainly be interested in investigating.
I don’t have the game currently installed (waiting for multiplayer), otherwise I would verify for myself if it were possible, but does the loot filter have an option that is possibly hiding the keys?
No. 5 chars
and this is why I hate RNG.
Zaodon did say he wasn’t running empowered monos.
While I have got a few of the new keys, since I last posted on here about the lack of them I’ve only got another 8 of the new keys as opposed to 24 temporal sanctum keys.
The vast majority of the monos I am running are empowered between 200-350 depending on which one I run (I get bored in one spot). I also make sure the boss has at least 2 modifiers on him.
I noticed from upgrading some monos I don’t run often from below 200 to above 200 that the key drop rate increased dramatically over 200 (I’m working on making all my monos 250+). So, I can only guess that running non empowered monos must make the new key drops as rare as an honest politician…
Correct. Also, 0 corruption as well.
Really? Zero keys after 1,000 monoliths? Was it 1,000 Fall of the Outcasts or something, because that doesn’t sound realistic, especially since keys have a very high likelihood of dropping from monolith bosses.
If you really want the keys badly and somehow your monoliths aren’t giving them to you, you could run Tier 3/4 Arena where key drops frequently show up as a reward, which includes all dungeon keys and the Arena key.
To clarify what Zaodon originally posted, it wasn’t ALL dungeon keys, just the new keys.
Yes, but when doing Arena of Champions, all keys can drop with the key reward. Soulfire Bastion keys and Lightless Arbor keys are a subset of this. Assuming an even split, this reward type gives a 50% chance for Zaodon to get what they want. Even if it isn’t an even split, it’s still significantly higher than 0 out of 1,000.
Yes, I know. That’s why I suggested Arena of Champions as an alternative if they really wanted keys.
Afaik it’s Arena and Dungeon in the pool, but I’m likely wrong as usual. If you say it’s 66% it’s probably 66%.
The new dungeon keys should drop regularly from non-empowered, 0 corruption Fall of the Outcasts (just to aggregate everything which was said in previous replies).
They do not.
They do.
I’m not a fan of gating content very hard and I spoke for upping the droprates, too. I really haven’t played a lot of the new patch. I’ve by far not run 1k mono echoes.
But I’ve leveled 2 chars from scratch to empowered monos and I’ve gotten a bunch of keys for every Dungeon on each char by just going the fastest / shortest way to unlock empowered monos.
We could debate if the amount of keys I got is ok or should be tweaked. But I can’t believe your statement that you did not receive any key while doing 1k mono echoes. I guess it’s an over exaggeration you do to prove your point.
My new character last week got 1 LA and 2 SB keys just from mobs in the monoliths. It’s level 70 and has finished 3 monoliths only, Fall of Outcasts twice. I didn’t get any keys from the 4 boss fights. My previous character got a few SB keys and only one LA key after doing 6 monoliths. No keys from any bosses, just mobs. At least one key dropped during the campaign.
This feels a bit stingy to me, compared to the ease of getting Temporal Sanctum keys. I would like to try the new dungeons just to see what they’re like, but don’t feel like there are enough keys to even let me find out what they’re all about and learn the boss fights. If the intent is that dungeons aren’t worth doing until getting to empowered monos, that’s just boring. I just sell the Temporal Sanctum keys now since it’s so easy to get a lifetime supply of those.
Personally, I think each character should automatically get one key when they discover the entrance to a dungeon and talk to the dungeon keeper. Then do more content for more keys. At least give us a chance to do the low level dungeon before we get to level 65. Not everybody wants to grind monos forever to try out the new content.
The balance of type of dungeon key, to me, is most definitely way off balance.
Since I started keeping track I get around 3 temporal sanctum keys per each one of the 2 new types. I think this needs to be looked at quite urgently, as it does seem very broken. I also sell off the temporal keys as I had a store of them anyway that would last for 10 new toons.
However, I started keeping an entirely new stash for keys a couple of weeks ago, and ignored all my old temporal keys so as to look at the issue with “fresh” eyes. It’s from that new stash that I make my assertion of 3:1. For context, all my keys are from running empowered mono’s (80% of them above 200 corruption) and bosses in them with 2+ modifiers, and also from the odd dungeon run itself.
Honestly your not missing much, the dungeons are garbage anyway.
Current dungeon state does not sit well with me. I mostly agree with the main argument here.
The boss Challenge is ridiculous, T4 bosses at current state are a soft gating to certain builds, as some builds will have a much harder time to deal with theses bosses, not to mention telegraphed mechs you cannot realistically avoid (anything below 0.75 seconds is not manageable unless you have gold-like reflexes), or two mechs that when thrown together, is near-guaranteed death.
So, if you’re not a gifted player and you happen to have a build that either doesn’t have enough defenses + offenses or the playstyle collide directly with the boss challenges (IE: Julra vs Melee Mapper), you’re soft-gating that player for the highest reward.
I would personally separate the T4 boss challenge to the “access” to the highest reward, some solution I can think off, is to add a “Challenge” tier, after T4, aimed for those who want to go specifically after boss rewards, add there the current T4 boss version, and make the current T4 something between T3 and T4, where you have a bit more room for error. The new watered down T4 would have a lower chance for the best loot.
Also, the keys are not a reward per se, just a requirement, you either make keys extremely rare, so the key is something you’re hoping for while pushing through echoes and building your blessings, with some once-only supply to at least unlock/learn the lower tier dungeons, or you remove keys completely.
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding, but isn’t this precisely the argument for why keys are unnecessary at best and frustrating at worst? If the ideal situation is that players will only access Lightless Arbor when they have accumulated enough gold to make it feel rewarding, then there is already a mechanism enforcing that behavior - the process of farming gold. Imagine a key drop algorithm so perfect that you always receive a Lightless Arbor key immediately after you pick up the last pile of gold you needed. In that scenario the key might as well not be required since it has no effect on gameplay. On the other hand, if having a surplus of keys or having a dearth of keys are both considered negative situations then removing keys also eliminates those issues. So a Last Epoch without keys is either functionally the same in some scenarios or an improvement in others, which means the decision would be a net positive for the game.
The counterargument is that the dungeons themselves have increased drop rates, and some are self-sufficient. We wouldn’t want to just open the gates on the Soulfire Bastion, because that dungeon would outright just replace monoliths entirely.
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