Drop rate on 2 awesome items Splitters Vs Traitors

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1

Let me start by saying I love both items. They are both great for end game how ever I feel it’s a bit unevenly balanced in a few areas.

Traitors Tongue / World Splitter - stats at a quick glance:

Traitors

  • Big Crit Multi implicits

  • 10–13% Flat Crit or Parry

  • +2 Dex Skills

  • +2 Int Skills

  • 10–18% Attack Speed

WS

  • Bleed on Hit implicit / conversion to timerot for more dmg

  • 30–52 Void Melee

  • AOE – 0 impact for WS / OK for ES

  • Crit per Mana Cost – ES can get flat 9% from this; WP none. This was previously nerfed.

  • 1% Crit Multi per Mana

  • Mana Regen / Increased Mana

Now the thing is you can use the dagger from level 27, thats INSANE. The drop rate of the item is also super common

LP3 - Dagger is 1 in 99 and the Axe is 1 in 1 in 30,000. What the actual. I have seen numerous LP4s of this dagger dropped this season as well with that being 1 in 5000. That is crazy.

On a scale of power they are both used end game in many many builds that can run high corruption maps as well as Uber.

If you dig deep into the data and go off personal experience getting 77 and 777 daggers in Nemesis is actually not unusual. Getting 76 axes, pretty good. 77 - very hard and 777? I don’t think I have seen one since I have played they are that much more rare.

I don’t want either item nerfed, I think they are great but do feel that the LP rate on the world splitter needs to be looked at.

This season I have, multi times done a lot of blacksun boss as well as 80-100 collapsing horizon maps at a time using my own and friends. Literally had 8-10 tabs full of splitters that you turtle then nem then repeat. I think I have had no 9 x LP2 World Splitters. I have been successful in slamming 3 of those, bricking 2 with corruptions and currently still using the 3rd.

On the other hand. I did a bunch of dagger prophecies, got some LP3 traitors and a bunch of lower, took about 3/4 of a tab to turtle, got a few more LP3s, took the 0s and put them in Nem and got more. I had about 12 x LP3 from 1 process - that was about 20 mins of gathering prophecies, 20 mins of running, 2 mins in turtle and 30 mins in Nem towers. The axes have taken WEEKS of constant work.

The other aspect of this is that rogues do more damage, they’re like 95% of the high corruption ladder, there is maybe 1 void knight in there rep’n cos Biman is an excellent player.

Circle back to the start - WP got a nerf 2 seasons ago. Traitors has remained strong, insanely common, used in a TON of different builds vs WS which is uniquely designed for 2 builds, really.

I am sure there are caster items that are similar to this such as that crazy ladel which drops like candy my friend has a tab full of lp3s and a ton of lp4s. I am sure other caster items in comparision are fully being jipped.

Please look into making LP2 common and LP3 easier to get, I see about 2 posted in chat per season, in comparision to power / level and being able to obtain these items it’s an absolute joke.

I look forward to your consideration and comments from my 3 favourite forum guys :slight_smile:

2

I think that Traitor’s Tongue LP chance need to be lowered. It is a very oppressive item for a lot of builds. Even for pure Int and pure Dex skills. If you have a Int + Dex skill its even worse.

Its so easy to reliably get 3 and 4LP on it, that it invalidates virtually any other alternative.

When I played any build that benefits from Traitor’s Tongue I really wanted to use something else instead because its so boring using the same item on so many different builds, but there are very few other items that you can justify using.

I think the LP chance should be lowered to ~Effective Level for Legendary Potential of 70 (similar to Smoke Weaver). It would still be very easy to get 2LP and 3LP is still doable in the endgame grind as a late game item.

But 4LP would be essentially not reliably farmable.

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3

I don’t mind if its lowered or made higher level req aswell (that’s gonna trigger some folks) I use it on flay lich and its as good slammed with 75 as the 778 dagger I have with the t8 being nec pen, its crrrrayzzz but same time I would love to see more access to LP2 world splitters and a few more LP3s floating round even if I don’t get one personally cries inside a little knowing that he definitely wouldnt

4

Funny you mention Flay Lich, that was actually the Archetype that I have the most issues with Traitor’s Tongue, basically any Flay and/or Harvest Acolyte.

Once your skills are Int and Dex Traitor’s Tongue becomes absurdly strong and you simply can’t justify using anything else.

Back in 1.3 when Executioner’s Tithe, my 2nd Creator Unique, released and Lich got the Dual Wielding Passive, I naturally played around it a lot.

I tried so hard using something else, even went with T8 Primordial Dagger crafts, which was the only thing coming close to a 3LP Traitor’s Tongue and can even exceed it, but that is multitudes harder to craft.

I just wanted to test out different combinations as a Off-Hand weapon together with Executioner’s Tithe, but there are really not that many alternatives, which makes gearing very boring and hinders build creativity.

Of course people will complain if things get nerfed, but if people don’t see that this item is clearly overperforming you can’t help them anyway, whatever you would do you would never satisfy them.

I think a combination of lower LP chance and maybe reducing the Flat Crit on it would do enough to at least give other alternatives a chance to get used.

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Yeah I like your axe tbh and I the reason your ideas in that other thread about exalteds got me hyped was exactly situations like this where you shouldnt have to use a level 27 daggers because you can’t beat it - the dagger I have is t7 critmulti, t8 pen, t7 melee nec t5 shred this seasons one and crappy corrupt about fire dmg lol but yeah I made this specifically because i didnt want to use traitors. I am yet to make the lich but its on the list have a 77 slam on the lp2 axe too, only axe I found and only slam I did lucky as heck! (no corrupt)

Sorry side tracked but 100% keen for alts to be used for a LOT of weapons so would like to see your ideas get traction around exalteds for sure!

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They’ll nerf Traitor, thx for feedback :roll_eyes:

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If they listen to the exalted ideas then exalteds will be way better :smiley:

8

This dagger may be very powerful, and its drop rate is indeed high, but before discussing its nerf, wouldn’t it be better to consider buffing other unpopular items?
The only thing that bothers me is the implicits of both items. If the Traitors had a chance to bleed or poison, and the Splitter had a physical damage increase or melee dmg%, that would be fair enough.

9

While I am a big fan of buffs, this item is a very obvious outlier.

And sometimes nerfing one item is more feasible then buffing 100s of other items.

So you want to artifically make the item worse by giving it non-synergistic implicits with the rest of the item design? While that might make the item mroe in line from a powerlevel perspective for some builds it might not even affect every build using them, so I don’t think that is a good idea.

10

But World Splitter is a melee crit-focussed item that’s got a bleed chance implicit, why would changing the implicit to % phys or % melee make it worse? The current state of the axe is that it has a non-synergistic implicit!

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I was mainly refering to Traitor’s tongue.

But regarding World Splitter, which is primarily used for VK and Erasing Strike, Bleed Implicit is actually a very Synergistic, thematic and strong, because of VK’s and Erasing Strikes scale very well with Time Rot (which bleed gets converted to).

12

I think he was talking about traitor’s tongue, namely it being changed to a non-synergistic implicit (in this case, a basically useless one).

EDIT: Guess I was a little too late. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Just an FYI - I did start off by saying I use it a lot and wasn’t asking for a nerf, I am just here for a buff to the drop rate of world splitter LP2+ I personally just feel the balance of the items in power are right up there together so it’s crazy the dagger is so easy to get and also used at such a low level.

I also do agree though that it’s so strong its basically used 1 or 2 in most nearly every rogue build apart from bows right now. I would a gazillion percent like to see exalted items compete with both the bow and the axe as Heavy mentioned in another thread with exalteds getting much more special implicits and affixs - you would still be able to get the generic affixs to slam on LP items but they would also have special ones on specific bases that did not slam but made the item fricking amazing so that we had people getting epic exalted drops and using all kinds of weapons rather than every person in 1 class using the same item for builds :slight_smile:

14

I’d probably agree that the high-LP traitor should drop less frequently.
But I can’t agree that the Splitter should drop more frequently.
Because then you’d want other high-LP items to drop more frequently, too.
Although the drop rate system is so outdated that it’s better to completely rework it.
And for me personally, it doesn’t matter at all what item you can equip at what level—the whole game is built around the endgame.

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Yeah the whole reason I am even suggesting it is/was because both items are similar in end game power, used in tonssss of builds but have such a disparity in drop rates to obtain. One of them having 1 in 99 for LP3 and one having 1 in 30,000 is asbolutely out of this world caaarazy. I think they should be brought in to a much more equal area - as mentioned I will see a couple of lp3 splitters linked in chat - think I’ve seen 2 this season so far but I’ve seen about 6 or 7 lp4 traitors and had (after yesterday) about 25+ lp3 traitors from minimal work