Multiplication is taught in 3rd grade. That’s an 8 yr old child.
My suggestion does not involve algebra, geometry, or calculus. It’s 3rd grade math. It is not insulting in the slightest to say that someone who can’t handle 400 x 2.5 is dumb, especially since both Windows and MacOS come with calculator apps.
Not only that, but if you have the same attack speed and are trying out a different weapon (for example), you’re comparing 400 x 2.5 vs. 500 x 2.5, so you only compare 400 to 500.
Lastly, I already said its fine to keep some sort of “dumb person system”, just don’t call it the completely misleading “DPS” because it isn’t, in a ton of cases.
But it is, it’s a reasonable approximation of DPS based on what the game can reasonably know at any one time. You don’t like it but that doesn’t make it not true.
For every skill you use which interrupts that skill, it is inaccurate.
For every time you move to avoid AoE (mainly bosses), it is inaccurate.
And that’s assuming it gets fixed. Right now, its also off because it factors in other things. Example: a weapon with a chance to bleed or ignite affix, making it look like the DPS is higher than it actually is.
I am saying that, as a real “damage per second”, its inaccurate. You’re saying “while standing at the dummy doing nothing but spamming the skill, its fairly accurate.”
The entire point of this thread is that thinking of DPS as “standing in front of the dummy” is inherently a wrong way to think of DPS. DPS should be thought of as “how much damage, per second, can I apply to a real boss in a real monolith.” And the current thing called “DPS” is completely wrong for that. Again, if you want to keep it as the “Gear Score” or whatever title you want to give it so that people can do a “quick compare” between passive choices, weapon choices, gear choices, idol choices, or skill tree choices, then fine, keep that easy number. It just needs renaming. I’d even settle for “Approximate Damage Output”.
Personally I think it should be renamed - Approximate Damage Per Second On A Single Target If Nothing’s Moving, You Don’t Get Interrupted By Incoming Damage, The Target Isn’t A Boss, On Low Or High Life And A Whole Load Of Other Conditional Damage Bonuses, or ADPSOASTINMYDGIBYDTTIABOLOHLAAWLOOCDB.
Though you know players, they’ll just shorten it to DPS.
Should the game display more useful (damage) numbers?
→ I have nothing against it! [Possibly partly switchable on and off].
Should every player calculate the numbers himself in an operating system calculator?
→ I think my pig is whistling!
[So IF you should include the calculator in the game].
So the game should show usable approximations (DPS etc.) for all possible damage events, no matter if for single damage, screen-wide multiple damage, also for hit and dot and all effects caused by skill internals or show them as final calculation to create at least halfway clarity?
In spite of the translation, yes, that should be/be the minimum EHG should aim for.
→ And until I see EHG’s solutions, it just seems pointless to put too much heat into this thread.
A large part of all people on Midgard [Middle Earth]/Earth/the “jaw”-world probably experienced a less efficient education than you, I would like to agree.
→ Conversely, I can only recommend to everyone:
→ Don’t surround yourself with too many stupid people, otherwise you’ll feel unrealistically great!
Hmm, its hard to reply because I see that post was translated from another language.
True enough. I don’t expect EHG to be all like “Oh, look, Zaodon posted something, lets code that directly into the game!” Often these suggestions end up sparking some Dev conversations which turn into something totally different but in the same vein.
That’s fair.
Yes, some translations just don’t work out the way I want them to. In addition, sarcasm-smileys do not work as well as micro mimic or micro gestures, voice pitch and the like… there is just too much missing sometimes.
Would still have to offer German, if there was a need.
That’s the spirit! Personally my favourite abbreviation was from the Red Dwarf Polymorph episode - Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society.
Oh freddled gruntbuggly,
Thy micturations are to me, (with big yawning)
As plurdled gabbleblotchits, in midsummer morning
On a lurgid bee,
That mordiously hath blurted out,
Its earted jurtles, grumbling
Into a rancid festering confectious organ squealer. [drowned out by moaning and screaming]
Now the jurpling slayjid agrocrustles,
Are slurping hagrilly up the axlegrurts,
And living glupules frart and stipulate,
Like jowling meated liverslime,
Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes,
And hooptiously drangle me,
With crinkly bindlewurdles,mashurbitries.
Or else I shall rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon,
See if I don't!
It´s totally out of my english knowledge so I don´t even try to put it into translator but it reminds me some “great” poem from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy in our dabing
Zaodon is probably more correct here. The issue with people that want to cling to DPS as an easy way to figure if a new piece of gear is an upgrade or not is habit. People assume a higher DPS means its better, when it isn’t. Depending on a players build, a higher attack speed could be better or a higher per hit damage could be better. DPS then requires math to break down if it’s an upgrade depending on your builds preference.
DPS isn’t a good metric. People just think it is because they are so married to the stat as a measuring stick. Even in a raid situation, total damage done by a player would be a better measure of the damage dealing players.
I don’t think you have to get rid of the DPS stat, but maybe just make it not the primary stat. Have it be one of the hidden stats for people that can’t do basic multiplication. Even if it is detrimental for them to base upgrades on DPS the vast majority of the time.
Out of curiosity, what number do you get if you divide that total damage dealt by the duration of the fight? I’m not quite sure, but I’m sure someone who’s not quite as wedded to the “bad old ways” would be able to help such a reactionary old stick in the mud as myself.
You’re reaching a bit. My point still stands. People are married to DPS for whatever reason. It doesn’t give any extra information. Even your situation takes extra calculations, which I’m sure takes up at least some system resources for DPS meters, for no extra information.
If someone just facetanks everything in the game, then sure, DPS might be applicable to that player.
Damage per hit is a very useful information, imho. But I don’t see why there shouldn’t be just the DPH added to the DPS. Why do you want to remove DPS?
It is a good metric. It is for comparing your damage with different stats under ideal circumstances. It doesn’t matter if you don’t spam an ability. If the number with item x is higher than with item y than item x is your way to go in 90% of cases. In most cases it’s a big help for making decisions.
In some cases it can be misleading. For example if AS is the main contributor while you use a hit and run playstyle. In theory you would increase DPS with AS while you practically can’t. If you are technically not able to hit more often than once per second, theres no use in increasing AS below that number.
This is where the DPH value would be handy on top. I’d just asume that most of the players can determine what number fits best for their builds.
Only showing DPH can also be misleading. Because AS can boost the damage if builds in most cases. So not taking it into account will result in false choices.
And why should I have to calculate my DPS manually? That’s a very odd suggestion. Following this argumentation, we should also calculate our damage reduction for armour and block manually.
This has nothing to do with being dumb. On the other side it would be dumb to present DPH and AS but not the DPS that results from that when this is a computer game and one single line of code.
When I’m creating a presentation about the financial status of my project, I’ll sum up all the single positions. I will not just list them and tell my boss “Sum it up yourself, it’s 1st grade math! Or are you dumb?”
I want to remove the label “DPS” and keep the number as something with a different name - maybe Gear Score, or Damage Score, or something like that. Even “Damage Comparison Score” since that’s how people use it.
Because people make false assumptions about what DPS is and use it as a crutch when picking gear. I don’t think “DPS” should be removed, but maybe hidden in the advanced details. It could also be renamed as Zaodon suggests.
I think in the end, the goal is to break the mindset that higher DPS equals more damage dealt by the character. DPS is a stat that doesn’t take into account the context of the environment.
When someone gets a higher dps number on their skill because of a gear change, and then wonder why their actual damage output seems lower, that is the scenario that is trying to be avoided.
On top of that, when someone KNOWS that a higher single hit will increase their overall efficiency because of the hit-and-run or cooldown playstyle they use. It would be nice if that stat was available.
