DOTS And Stats

Feedback and Suggestions
1

Hi,
I have not been playing for to long but I enjoy creating builds.
Recently I was fiddling with a poison Marksman and noticed a few things.

  1. I found that when looking at my poison chance it would only show the chance based on physical items equipped and did not take into account skills and passive benefits.

Is this something that will be easier to keep track of in the future.

  1. Will there be a way in the future to be able to recall/order minions to move to a new location or at least to your location on command?

  2. this is more of a bug I think but I may be wrong here.
    The Scalebarn node ā€œconverts bleed chance to poison chance from all sourcesā€ does seem to work properly.
    For example with hidden blows on smoke bomb I should receive 200% chance to poison whilst inside my smoke bomb and from my understanding if you have 100% chance to poison you will apply 1 stack per hit and an extra stack per extra 100% chance.
    when tested if I had 100% chance to poison and I hit a mob once that would tick for say 80dps now if use smoke bomb that should then apply and additional 2 stacks but yet the DOT was still only at 80Dps.
    Is this a bug or am I looking at this wrong?

Loving this game so far btw, really looking forward to seeing where this game goes in the future.

2

Hi!

  1. Some passives like incread poison chance that you can get on rogue or marksman will be added to your character sheet poison chance. But some conversions are currently not workin on character sheet. They should all work to increase your dmg though.
  2. Thats why i go straight to your 3rd point because i had the feeling that the 200% additional bleed chance to puncture works, no matter if you go bleed or poison conversion, since scalebane is a global conversion node for punture. But if you tested it properly you can maybe upload a short video on the bug forum around the scalebane node and interactions. Sometimes its really hard to see if a mechanic works properly while testinh on a dummy for ailment/dot builds. Especially when there are more layers of dmg happening at the same time. I remember testing cinder strike ignite dmg with the main hit, burning daggers hits, and ignite ticks. Hard to see those real numbers you are looking for imo.
3

Heyā€¦ Welcome to the forumsā€¦

As TriKster mentioned, there are lots of things that dont show in the character sheets and dps calculations purely because its very hard to show the correct figures as some are dependent on lots of variables. The devs have mentioned this a few times and are continually improving the dps/character sheet info.

Dammit has a very good build planner Last Epoch Build Planner and he/she/they is in the process of adding more calculations around specific skills etc - Its by no means feature complete, but you might find it useful to bridge the gap so to speakā€¦

Re moving minions,ā€¦ I am not much of a minion character player, but doesnt the ā€œAā€ targetting work to move them? There have been lots of improvements to minions AI and lots of requests for more minion stances/control so hopefully the devs will add things like this in future patchesā€¦

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4

:joy: im also not 100% sure but i guess a he, and one person :wink:

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5

You and @XLVI_carpo are separate personalities inside @heavyā€™s headā€¦

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6

No, no one will ever be able to get into his head and understand whatā€™s going on there. The tanky gasmask is also hindering you from getting inside of it.

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7

Maybe I am using it, so you canā€™t get out :stuck_out_tongue:

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8

Maybe we should stop going offtopic all the time and focus on opā€™s topic again :joy:

9

Yeah! Stop that shit! And get out of MY head!

10

You currently have the ā€œAā€ key for this, unless I did not understand correctly.

11

Welcome aboard OP. As others have addressed, the Stat sheets in game arenā€™t taking account of everything at present. Iā€™m sure the devs are fully aware of it, and working on making it more accurate.

I also think, the fact that @Llama8 knows about the insidious scheme to have personalities inside Heavyā€™s head points to an even more convoluted diabolical scheme.

I propose that @TriKster and @XLVI_carpo are inside the head of @Heavy which is all inside @Llama8ā€™s head. This type of thing can happen to Accountants after years exposed to too many Drā€™s & Crā€™s.

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12

Thanks for the responses peeps :slight_smile:
Yeah the A move is working, didnā€™t even know that was a thing so thank you.

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13

Glad it worked! :slight_smile:
Itā€™s relatively often written at the bottom of loading screens, but almost nobody reads those zones. This is common to many game genres, it is the very zone nobody cares for. Even in games where people read a lot, like old-school adventure games.

14

Thatā€™s hard to chose equipement because of the inaccuracy or lack of stats sometimes, so you donā€™t really know what you are trading sometimes. Especially when coming to minions or DoT.

So the dummy and testing in game remains the easiest way, tho I admit itā€™s not always easy to spot any difference unless itā€™s big enough (like doing 30k i/o 20k average dmg hits).

To my knowledge, POE is having the more complete and trustworthy stats and even tho, it sometimes just cannot render a skill efficiency, as so many things are involved into it, like the number of projectiles, the ability to miss etc.

15

The thing Iā€™ve never understood about the ā€œits hard to calculate this stuff, thereā€™s a lot of variables.ā€ Uh, donā€™t you have to calculate all that stuff to determine how much damage is done to enemies? All weā€™re asking for is for that information, to be clarified betterā€¦
I mean most games that do ARPGs have this mechanic down pretty well. I donā€™t question if my build is doing the right thing when Iā€™m playing other games, the effects are immediate and the stats sheet updates properly.

Itā€™s getting more and more frustrating to try and do builds when I donā€™t know if what Iā€™m doing is correct, or if I need to change up my strategy.

16

The simplest answer to this imho is - each situation is different so what dps calculation do you want displayed? Yes, the game calculates this on the fly for individual hits / dots during the game based on 50 different factors at that split second in timeā€¦ but how do you want this information displayed to you in a usable way that is actually accurate enough for you to do something with the information?

For example, attacking the dummy (which has zero modifiers enabled) might say that with skill X, you are doing 10 dps. Attacking the same dummy with skill Y, you are doing 20 dpsā€¦

Now factor into this, all the different active skills you can have, auras, enemy debuffs, buffs, passive procs etcā€¦ skill x now does 10 to 100 dps and skill y does 20 to 200dpsā€¦

Add things that are random and time based, like bleeds, poisons, gear procs, random skill procsā€¦ now skill X does 100 to 2500 dps and skill y 200 to 20 000 dps at any given momentā€¦

and this is just for the dummyā€¦ and doesnt include map modifiers, mob modifiers, debuffs on your character or anything else that would be active in normal play.

yes, the game calculates this actively during play, but how are you going to use this information while playing? Hit damage calculations are already there but its hard to show the actual dps on a skill when there are so many other inputs that are dynamic.

so the question is no longer as simple as showing a dps figure - sure, the devs can show a rough dps figure right now - but is it going to be accurate? and if its not accurate, then whats the point?

take a build that does 500k crits on the dummy at level 100ā€¦ during empowered mono runs, it does 20k crits on one rare and 40k crits on anotherā€¦ which dps do you want to see?

Yesā€¦ they will eventually figure something out, but its hard to SHOW it accuratelyā€¦

17

I assume youā€™re talking about the tooltip being a bit iffy?

You do, and at the time the damage is being calculated the game has all that info, whether the target is a boss or not, whether itā€™s on high/low/in-between life, whether itā€™s slowed/chilled/etc, how many stacks of resist/armour shred are on the target, are you doing single target damage to a boss or AoE to a bajilion mobs. The tooltip canā€™t know that, there are just too many conditional effects that the game canā€™t know about ahead of time. About the only think they could change is to apply the mobs % damage reduction scaling based on area level, but if they did that then your DPS would increase if you went to a lower level zone (like when you finish an empowere mono & youā€™re less than lvl 100) which would confuse people.

They are working on re-doing the character screen to give all of that info you want, but itā€™s not a trivial thing. In the mean time we just have to wait.

18

I mean, you canā€™t tell me what each individual thorn does for damage baseline? it never tells you, its always ā€“ for damage. I have to guess and use the tags and test it on minions, not the dummy because it wonā€™t even target the dummyā€¦ and it does a crap job of explaining things like say, stacking poison damage. Do different sources stop them from stacking? If I thrown down ice thorns with 100% poison chance and thorn totems with 100% poison chance and blow up with poison and do more damage per stack of poison, and yet the damage i see to enemies doesnā€™t seem to be stacking poison dots, so how do i know if its actually working or not? and some areas it takes me forever to kill enemies, and then the next area and it seems like my stuff is way stronger and poison stacks up faster.

TLDR: When I canā€™t check against a tooltip, I canā€™t test against the dummy, AND damage is inconsistent against enemies, it makes it harder to enjoy the game for me. I just want relevant feedback to choices made Somewhere.

19

Also is the chance for poison per thorn, or per thorn cast? is the chance for poison for ice thorns per cast or per hit? If I hit someone multiple times with poisons and then drop thorns on them with % damage per stack of poison, why do they still feel weak?

20

While we wait for Mike to rework the character screen, most of the data you want is either on Last Epoch Build Planner or https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/

8 per hit, not sure what the cast speed is.

No minions have tooltips yet, that #### is hard since minions snapshot more than ā€œnormalā€ skills & you can have different minions out with different stats snapshot making the tooltip a complete Charley Foxtrot.

Have you tried the in-game game guide? Pretty sure that explains ailments & stacking.

No.

Damage from DoTs is generally consolidated into fewer numbers, though thereā€™s currently a bug where hits/damage instances that are too close together the second number doesnā€™t get shown.

If thatā€™s not a rhetorical question, maybe the first area you were trying to kill tankier mobs with more hp or magic/rare mobs with the more hp modifier, or they were within the AoE of a rare with the ā€œallies take less damageā€.

I know, Mike is working on updating the character screen (along with everything else heā€™s working on), while we wait most of the data is available on one/both of the sites I linked, the Game Guide helps, as does Andrewā€™s awesome Community Game Guide, and failing all of those, thereā€™s other people (discord/forum).

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