Dont understand skill base dmg calculation..lets make an example

ILIAS · August 9, 2020, 3:18pm

Hej guys,
Dmg caluclation in this game is not really clear for me, and yes I used tooltip

Skill example with skill tooltip:
Added damage effectness: 100 %
Gains 1 Physical dmg per 1 dex = 100 dex = +100 phys dmg

Base dmg without anything: 10 phys
Possible added base dmg WITHIN TREE: +5 phys dmg
Weapon dmg: 50 phys
Unique: +5 phys dmg
Passives Tree: + 10 physical damage

1. Base dmg of skill + possible added base dmg WITHIN TREE (does here count already added dmg effectevniess within tree???): +5 phys dmg
“Base dmg can only be modified by skill tree”.
Ok.
Dmg = 10+5= 15.

2. Unique: +5 phys dmg
"When calculating dmg dealt, stats like “+ 5 physical damage” are multiplied by the skills effective dmg effectivness and then added to the base dmg before increased/more multipliers.

So, these +5 physical dmg I guess it doesnt mather from which source i get it ? (skill tree, passives tree, item).
If this is true, then the tooltip is already wrong, saying in the beginning “base dmg can only be modified by skill tree”
So I have +5 phys dmg from an unique, + added dmg effectivness 100 % = +10 phys dmg

So, my base dmg is now 25 phys dmg.

3. Skill tooltip: Gains 1 Physical dmg per 1 dex = 100 dex = +100 phys dmg

Actually same story… +100 phys dmg + 100 % added dmg effectnivess = 200 phys dmg

My base dmg is now 225 phys dmg.

4. Weapon dmg: 50 phys
Same, 50 + 100 % = 100

My base dmg is now 325 phys dmg.

5. Passives Tree: + 10 physical damage
10 + 100 % = 20

My base dmg is now 335 phys dmg.

That should be now my base damg or am I wrong guys?
Added, increased and more tooltip also says " First ALL ADDED sources of a stat are totaled together" Which also means, doesnt matter where this added flat dmg comes from.
So in the end, all added flat dmg is basic skill dmg including ADDED damage effectivness is??

If my calculation is right:

skill base dmg within tree is kind of useless, you get a few +dmg to base dmg, while already a weapon gives +50 + 150 flat dmg

BladeAndShadow · August 9, 2020, 4:14pm

My understanding is that it would be
(10 + 5) = 15 base
(100 + 50 + 5 + 10) * 100% = 165 added damage

Base damage in a tree can be good depending on the skill and build.

If I am wrong, I would like someone to correct me

ILIAS · August 9, 2020, 4:21pm

yes, exactly, but this would mean my “base” skill damage is 15 + 165, since the first step at damag calculation is all ADDED dmg together, and then increased, more and so on

lazaro · August 9, 2020, 5:08pm

as long as they don’t implement the skills DPS for me it’s been a big mess … hopefully the 0.8 patch comes out with the skill DPS. I pray for that.

BladeAndShadow · August 9, 2020, 5:18pm

Exactly?

Llama8 · August 9, 2020, 6:12pm

I doubt it’s going to be that soon. Unfortunately. I also don’t think the wiki is particularly clear on this matter.

Strannik · September 16, 2020, 6:25am

Yeah, would be great to get more informative tooltips on skills damage and DPS. As for now it feels like a big mess.

TheRealIronMan · September 16, 2020, 2:51pm

A pre-warning to all those who dont like math ----> this is all math and maybe TL:DR for some.

I have been working on trying to simulate the Basic DPS calculation for a while now. I have
even built an excel model (yes i am an engineer) to try an model the Basic Attack DPS
calculation on the character sheet. I haven’t tried to simulate actual in game DPS yet as if
i cant get the basic calculation to work properly then that next step will inevitably be wrong.

I used my Druid Werebear to do the calculation and setup 6 scenarios as follows:

Scenario 1 : Unbuffed in town
Scenario 2 : In Werebear form
Scenario 3 : In Werebear form + Active Totems
Scenario 4 : In Werebear form + Active Totems + Swipe Stacked
Scenario 5 : In Werebear form + Active Totems + Swipe Stacked + recent Roar
Scenario 6 : In Werebear form + Active Totems + Swipe Stacked + recent Roar + recent Charge

So the generic formula i am using to calculate Basic Attck DPS is as follows:

Z = A * B * C * D * …

where

Z = Basic Attack DPS

A = Melee Damage
= (A0 + A1 + …+ An) * ( 1 + Aa0 + Aa1 + … + Aan)
A0 = Flat Melee Damage
A1 … An = Flat Type Damage (Phys, Fire, Light etc)
Aa0 = Increased Melee Damage
Aa1 …Aan = Increased Type Damage (Phys, Fire, Light etc)

B = Attack speed multiplier
= B1 * B2 * ( 1 + B3)
B1 = Weapon base attack rate
B2 = factor of 1.46666 (i am not 100% sure where this comes from but it seems to exist)
B3 = Increased Melee Attack Speed

C = Crit multiplier
= (1-C1*(1+C2)) * 100% + C1*(1+C2)*C3
C1 = Base Melee Crit Strike chance
C2 = Increased Melee Crit Strike chance
C3 = Critical strike multiplier

D … = there will be other additional multipliers for other chars / builds / setups but i cant model these until i get the basic calculation working

Notes

factor A only uses “Melee Phys factors” in the scenarios asthis Druid Werebear only has Physical Damage flat amounts equipped
Incr Melee Attack Speed shown on char sheet is (B1 * (1+B3) - 1 ) —> rounded
Melee crit strike chance shown on char sheet is C1 * (1 + C2) —> rounded

Scenario	A	B	C	Z	Sheet
1	293.8	1.721426	1.361080	688.373	688

	A0 = 0
		B1 = 0.97	C1 = 12%
	A1 = 130 (Melee Phys)	from Sovnya	Baseline = 5%
	Sovnya = +88 Melee Phys		Sovnya = 7%
	T3 Affix = +24 Melee Phys	B2 = 1.466
	Axe and Claw = +10 Phys		C2 = 155%
	Spirit Claws = +8 Melee Phys	B3 = +21%	UrsClaws= 50%
		Jade Ring = 9%	Urs Maw = 105%
	Aa0 = 65%	Gloves = 12%
	Surv of Pack = +30%		C3 = 218%
	Savagery = +35%		Baseline = 200%
			RadCrest = 18%
	Aa1 = 61% (Phys)
	Helm innate = +39%	B1*(1+B3)-1	C1*(1 + C2)
	Chest innate = +22%	= 17.37%	= 30.6%
		= 17% rounded	= 31% rounded
--------	-----------------------------	---------------	---------------	----------	-------
2	696.96	1.721426	1.726408	2071.284	2071

	A0 = 0
			C1 = 12%
	A1 = 144 (Melee Phys)
	Spirit Claws = +8 Melee Phys
	(double in WB form)
	Pummel = +6 Melee Phys		C2 = 413%
			IncrSpell=+258%
			(Star Claw)
	Aa0 = 323%
	Incr Spell Dmg = +258%		C3 = 218%
	(Wizened Claws)

	Aa1 = 61% (Phys)
			C1*(1 + C2)
			= 61.6%
			= 62% rounded
--------	-----------------------------	---------------	---------------	----------	-------
3	957.6	1.721426	1.982704	3268.363	3268

	A0 = 0
			C1 = 12%
	A1 = 144 (Melee Phys)


			C2 = 594%
			3xTotem = +181%
			(TotemSpell DPS
	Aa0 = 504%		thru Star Claw)
	4xActiveTotem = +181%
	(of Prophesy Incr Spell Dmg		C3 = 218%
	–> Dmg thru Wizened Claws

	Aa1 = 61% (Phys)
			C1*(1 + C2)
			= 83.28%
			= 83% rounded
--------	-----------------------------	---------------	---------------	----------	-------

So when i first did scenario 4 (which i show as 4a below) i reconciled to all figures in
charatcer sheet but the calculated answer did not correlate. By process of “deduction” i think
what is happening is that, even though Increased Melee Damage shows as 600% and Increased Physical Damage shows as 207%, the damage calculation does not in fact double count the +96% from Battle Howl even though it shows as such on the stat sheet.I show this in 4b below.

Scenario	A	B	C	Z	Sheet
4a	1306.08	2.219359	3.011704	8729.907	7806

	A0 = 0
		B1 = 0.97	C1 = 12%
	A1 = 144 (Melee Phys)

		B2 = 1.466
			C2 = 669%
		B3 = +56%	Feline = +75%
		Aspect of= +15%	Hunter
	Aa0 = 600%	the Panther
	Battle Howl = +96%	Frenzy = +20%	C3 = 318%
			Apex = 100%
	Aa1 = 207% (Phys)		Predator
	Battle Howl = +96%
	Ursine Maw = +50%	B1*(1+B3)-1	C1*(1 + C2)
	(Ferocity)	= 51.32%	= 92.28%
		= 51% rounded	= 92% rounded
--------	-----------------------------	---------------	---------------	----------	-------
4b	1167.84	2.219359	3.011704	7805.904	7806

	A0 = 0

	A1 = 144 (Melee Phys)

	Aa0 = 600%
	Battle Howl = +96%

	Aa1 = 111% (Phys)
	Ursine Maw = +50%
	(Ferocity)

--------	-----------------------------	---------------	---------------	----------	-------

It appears a similar issue is happening in Scenarios 5 & 6 where the Increased Damage buffs
from recent Roar (Imbued Sap from Entangling Roots proc) and Charge (Rip and Tear) show up
in Incr Damage % on character sheet but do not get double-counted in the Basic DPS calculation.

|--------|-----------------------------|---------------|---------------|----------|-------|
| | | | | | |
|Scenario| A | B | C | Z | Sheet |


5	1297.44	2.219359	3.011704	8672.157	8672

	A0 = 0

	A1 = 144 (Melee Phys)

	Aa0 = 690%
	Imbued Sap = +90%
	(Roar procs Entang Roots thru
	Woodland Bear )

	Aa1 = 111% (Phys)

--------	-----------------------------	---------------	---------------	----------	-------
6	1405.44	2.219359	3.207904	10006.017	9919

	A0 = 0		C1 = 12%

	A1 = 144 (Melee Phys)		C2 = 744%
			Rip and = +75%
	Aa0 = 765%		Tear
	Rip and = +75%
	Tear

	Aa1 = 111% (Phys)		C3 = 318%

			C1*(1 + C2)
			= 101.28%
			= 101% rounded
--------	-----------------------------	---------------	---------------	----------	-------

I am not sure where the small calc and sheet difference comes form in last Scenario 6 but
i am now tired of searching for small errors and will put it down to a rounding error

I hope this passes the @Llama8 audit materiality test

So i hope some of the more math oriented folks out there appreciated this exercise.

Llama8 · September 16, 2020, 3:32pm

Yes, let’s get started on that shall we…

But it’ll have to wait until I’ve answered some questions from some bigwigs at work regarding dividend payments from several years ago (and they want the data before close of play today because of course they do)…

TheRealIronMan · September 16, 2020, 3:52pm

So it looks like if critical strike chance exceeds 100%, which it does to 101% in Scenario 6 of my post, then the calculation caps it out at 100%.

Using a max 100% the calculation adjusts to 9,918.979 which is displayted as rounded 9,919 as the Basic Attack DPS

Llama8 · September 16, 2020, 4:16pm

Correct, the character sheet will double count anything & everything it can get it’s grubby mitts on, but the damage calculation doesn’t.

Apart from that it looks fine…

system · November 15, 2020, 4:16pm

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