@devs..why you kill this great game with such an "endgame" content?

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As stated by devs, there wont be any other endgame content with 1.0 and they will add more with “future content”

No hate, this game has great things, after 500 hours i dont understand why they implement such a poor “endgame”? Sure they are a few other things to improve, but THIS is for me probably a game breaker, I bet you ll lose 75 % of all buyers after 2-3 months, only becaue of that.

Monoliths
This is the only real “endgame” content, and it gets so boring and just work - not fun - after a while. Improving this “endgame” with corruption is just lazy game design. After a few days, this is even worse than any d3 rifts.

  • poor map design, every single map feels more or less same playing it, doenst matter at which monolith
  • farming monliths for items is just…a pain. Run a boss (including echoes before) dozens or maybe hundred times just for a rare +2leg unique?..No…

Dungeons
Thats not Endgame stuff.

  • Bastion: why would anyone run this?
  • Sanctum: just few runs for improving gear
  • Lightless: also just every now and then too spent gold

Arena
Meh, just a competition stuff, also not for everyone. Im fact I like this kind of competetion. But maps are also just boring, every wave just waiting for mobs to rush from all sides directly to players character. Imo also poorly executed this kind of leaderbord.

You are so creativ in itemization and character building, why not with that?
Just use stuff from other games. Pinnacle Bosses, PoE challenges for cosmetics or something like this.
Just ask peopal with 500+,1000+ hours what they thing about it, ask people like zyzz, kripp or this kind of “pros” what they think about that.

Cant image that there are more than 10% of 500+ gamers who enjoy this “endgame”.

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I agree with the core complaint, but expecting it by 1.0 is… insane to say the least.

You are comparing 1.0 LE to 3.x cycle poe.

if you compare 1.0 LE to 1.0 PoE the difference is really not that great. I had a blast in 1.2 in poe, the game was fresh and new to me.

Many people will be perfectly okay with playing their first character to 500 corruption and going “okay ill wait for next season” etc.

I think we just have to let them cook the end game just like PoE didnt have really exciting end game until like 2.0 at the least.

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I’ve 450 hours and I’ve only got one level 100 character. I have about 6 characters in offline and 7 in online. I’ve done most of the dungeons to T3, but havent bothered with T4 yet and only played Arena to T2. I’ve forged fewer than 10 legendaries, only one of those in online.

Most of my progression achievements were before 0.9.2.

Depending on what you want out of it, there is plenty of juice left in this orange.

Edited to add: there are approximately 176 work hours in a month. You would need to work 8 hours a day for 3 months straight to get to 500 hours. If the devs can release content patches every 3 to 4 months, I suspect they wont have any issues with most players (who will play vastly less than that)

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The difference are 35 bucks. If PoE wanted money from me back then i would’ve avoided it like the plague because it was pretty bad ^^.

If he wants more endgame options he don’t even has an orange to squeeze :smiley: .

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Fully agree that PoE did not have more content when released, and probably you are right, this wont affect people who maybe play like every few days 2-3 hours that much.
But why relate to content of a game which was released 10 years ago and not take already all these improvements they made until 2023 so far and learn of it.

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I sadly have to agree with some of your points. For me the end game just isn’t working well enough to keep my attention. After playing for more than 2.1k hours since Kickstarter, Monoliths aren’t the end game I was hoping for. I’ve only reached level 94 once and never had a level 100 in all those hours due to the fact it gets so dull and starting a new build is way more fun.

One of the things that sold the Kickstarter to me was the Gates of Memorium but sadly that got cancelled and we now just have Monoliths. This is the Kickstarter description of Gates of Memorium:

Travel back to the world of Eterra that you knew, even as its dangers rise to meet your newfound strength. Though the Gates of Memorium bring the recollection of your adventure to life, no memory is perfect, your memory and thus the version of Eterra you find yourself may become fearsome in ways you do not expect. Continue exploring Eterra but scaled to your level with the possibility of augmenting areas of the world to add new challenges and rewards as you search for rare items, Lost Memories, hidden quests, Eternity Caches, and more!

I understand it wouldn’t have been the endgame mode for some people but for me, it was the mode that sounded like something I could play for many, many hours.

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That looks very similar to monos.
You go back to Eterra but in a different timeline.

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To me it doesn’t feel like I’m going back to Eterra though, Mono’s are just small little maps that get repetitive and I never feel any connection to the game world when playing them.

My understanding was that we could continue to explore the campaign map areas after finishing the campaign but there would be new “challenges and rewards”. As I said, not to everyones taste but it certainly appealed to me. I can never understand why the endgame modes in these types of games always have to be “Maps/Rifts” or something similar. There has to be something better as ultimately they get boring pretty quickly.

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If I remember correctly the endgame of PoE at 1.0 was only maps. Endgame boss was basically Dominus map version. 1.2 brought sacrifice of the Vaal and Uber Atziri became the first proper endgame boss and people worked on builds that could defeat her. Pretty crazy thinking about that now.

I do feel LE has a pretty decent endgame cycle and their main focus should be on optimizing these/ bug fixing (a lot of bugfixing) for 1.0.

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I think monoliths are poor aswell…

As a fresh new player it will seem super fun, but after a couple of hundred hours farming for an item that never drops, just feels boring.

An example - For the last 3 or 4 days i have been farming the reign of dragons(performance permiting) timeline for the dagger… I was getting bored with the same drop every single time, went to my stash, grabbed a couple of daggers forged them and first attempt get the dagger i want, seems the last 3 or 4 days were just a waste of time, and it feels really bad.

I didn’t get the dagger and think great, fantastic, i felt like what have i been doing with my time the last few days…

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I mean, they did. They took a lot of things that were and are crappy in POE and have improved on them significantly.

“Why didn’t EHG put the equivalent of GGG’s 10 years worth of content development into their game?” is kind of a ridiculous question. POE was in development for three years before it was even announced, in 2010, its open beta started three years later, and its official release was almost a year after that. So, that’s almost 7 years of dev time building a game from the ground up - a very similar timeline to LE currently - and had a very similar level of endgame content. And IMO, LE has more (though not by much).

POE after 16 years of work to LE after 6(?) is not a valid comparison, and doesn’t become one by tacking on vague, hand-wavy statements about what “they could have learned”. Like, I want to see improvements to the end game too, but it’s totally absurd to try to use games that have had over twice the dev time as a reason that the current endgame isn’t “enough”.

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I think he means the quest echoes. Where the Dragons murder the gods & take over, or Rahyeh falls to the void, etc.

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You mean encountering snakes with sand storms in snow/ice maps isn’t immersive!!! You’re just a hater!! Get on the “everything is perfect bandwagon”, or face some wrath!!!

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It’s called global warming. Its moving snake population all around the world towards cooler places.

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I get those answers a lot and I get what people want to say with it buut one thought crossed my mind: If you know all the games out there and what they offer why do you aim to release a product that would’ve been fresh and fun 16 years ago? D4 is the best example that game is adumpster fire even when it runs great and I like it basicly the game is trash because the endgame is abyssmal.
Why is anyone thinking states of games should only be compared by the time they are arround? LE pushes on a market with some real quality games that offer a lot and to me it’s fair to compare it with whatever similar game because that’s the only way to see how the game is right now in the current state. Right now I give a rats ass if there is meaningfull endgame in LE in 3 years. Right now I can say the endgame is trash compared to other games of the same genre and completely uninspirered. There is nothing wrong with this from my point of view. There is a reason why people buy the new cool shit instead of using decade old stuff that is on it’s prime.

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I mean, that’s certainly one of the thoughts of all time, but it’s intensely an bad faith one. Like, you don’t really think that EHG sat around and said to themselves, “Okay everybody, our goal with Last Epoch is to make a game that would’ve been fun 16 years ago, but is not fun now.” do you? Talking in hyperbole is great but it doesn’t make for an interesting argument.

There are hard dependencies and limitations on the amount of time, funding, and staff that EHG has to work with. GGG has had almost triple the time and who knows how many orders of magnitude much more funding and staff to bring POE to the state it is now. If you don’t understand how that makes a completely unfair imbalance in the comparison I don’t know how to explain it to you. This is a concept that exists pretty much everywhere in life, business, production, etc. If you’re not getting it with LE I can only assume it’s on purpose.

It would be fair to compare some parts of LE to other games - things like graphical quality, volume or severity of bugs, design or systems. It is absolutely not fair to compare volume of content. It’s like comparing a 4 year old to a 4 month old and going, Wow this baby’s vocabulary is trash, why would I ever spend time with this baby instead of the toddler?

EHG could have had their design doc just be “We are going to wholesale copy every single system that POE has and put a time travel spin on it”, no time required on any original ideas whatsoever, and they’d still never accomplish it in the amount of dev time they’ve had so far. To suggest that they should be creating something with content volume on par with POE while also designing and building new and original ideas is ludicrous.

Then why do you keep holding up POE’s endgame as being so much better? They’re fundamentally the same thing. You run the same Marginally Varying Zones ad infinitum, get random rewards, and sometimes fight big bosses. The only real difference in POE is that they’ve had an extra decade to workshop, design, develop, and iterate on several dozen chunks of More Content that randomly pop up in your Marginally Varying Zones and build systems in service to or around that content.

Is it your honest contention that nothing in LE is cool or new compared to other existing ARPGs? Come on.

The reality is not that LE’s endgame is “uninspired trash”, it’s that you’ve been playing the same endgame of a Work In Progress for years and you’ve run out of shit to do, because of course you have. Travel back in time to the 2011 version of POE and if you spent the next several years playing a mostly unchanging version of that you would be just as bored and unsatisfied as you are now with LE. That’s the point, and that’s why the comparison isn’t fair or valid - the expectations and demands it’s based on are flat out not reasonable for where LE is at in its life.

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There is no product I’d ever buy that is worse then others :man_shrugging: . I make no differences. LE was the last kickstart game I bought in because what they wanted to achive looked good but what they deliver, from the informations I have right now, isn’t that good.

If you think it’s a good thing that games hit the market and then get developed into a 1.0 release ready state then so be it but that’s not my cup of tea anymore. In every other industry so many people from different development teams across the whole industry would’ve been fired 10 times over if they deliver so purely in other industries.

What is cool and new about it? if seen poassive trees that offer mostly +% values in many games. I’ve seen skilltrees that offer mostly +% values in many other games. Maping? Dungeons? Been there done that. The crafting system is different to other games and a crazy big time sink you need to nolife if you want to minmax it. The time travel theme where only one quest gives you a time travel feeling at all? What am I missing?

I haven’t because it was uninspired trash and i only played it when i had nothing else to play. Same goes for LE. I start it from time to time and play a bit to see what changed or was added and then I stop playing it until the next best “big” thing happens.

As I said I’m sick and tired of the gaming market and since BG3 it got obvious again how much this industry is shafting people.

I want LE to become a good game and I like a lot of the groundworks but I realy can’t tell why on earth they rush to release. In their tencent announcment they said funds are secured and they can develop the game as they like iirc. Now this? I’m just more then sceptical about it.

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To what I can understand and relate, it’s meaningless take into account the time of development of old versions of games of the past.
Technology is constantly evolving, and LE was created based on these games to improve things they considered these games did not deliver that good.

Monoliths are in the game forever, and every new feature they bring to this system does not aim the more experienced player pleasure. They spent lot of time to bring things that are more of the same for a player that have hundreds of hours.

I don’t know if it’s my anxiety, and being fair or not, the development of things are too slow. If I take into account the number of employees I think this way even more.

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To be fair, thats their market share.

I think its insane to think that LE should try and attract the same user base as PoE.

LE goal isnt to create an extremely deep complex hard as nails end game system. They have been pretty clear that this is a arpg intended to be for people not quite desiring PoE, but want something more meaty then Diablo.

People looking to put 1k+ hours into a single character, I really dont think this is the game for them. It has systems for them, like LP and corruption etc, that allow you to in theory play a character and be insanely strong. But not at the expense of the casual player base. its why corruption scaling is limited, and why LP is ultra rare. You are rewarded for grinding, its just non linear that way casuals dont feel like they cant engage with content.

If this game choose to be “poe-lite” it will instantly fail. Because if this game is a PoE clone, why wouldnt I just play the 15 year old juggernaut with more content?

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If it’s a meatier Diablo but not as hard as PoE then it’s either PoE lite or a hard Diablo… isn’t it :smiley: ? All hack and slash games work in the same way at the end of the day. get levels and better items and improve your skill to beat harder challanges.

having ultra rare stuff is the pinacle of casual unfriendlyness. I still wait for a “I play only 10h a week and got a grandfather!” reddit post but strangely they don’t happen.

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