Hello everyone. I have been playing for the time since the patch had released. I chose damage over time for my marksman character, and I started keeping it, but now it looks not playable at all. every skill has more hit damage but no one improves dmg over time as well as it should be playable. there is not enough dmg. I am disappointed about that. Plz give us more dmg over time for each stuck of ailment instead of more hit dmg. The very top of Marksman skills tree is very useless to improve that kind of dmg. Why Puncture couldn’t be nice as multishot. There are no additional projectiles, ricochets, double strikes or unique items to make it playable.
Thanks you all.
I don’t know how much you already know about the ailment system in LE, but Ailments are most definitely not weak or need improvements in LE.
I am almost certain you might miss some mechanics to scale them.
I suggest you look into the Game Guide In-Game by pressing [G]. It has alot of usefull informations about ailments and how to scale them.
If you still have questions, we can certainly help you.
Damage over time (DOT) deals different damage bases (see this guide).
So poison’s 20 damage over 3 seconds seems worse than bleed’s 53 damage over 4 seconds.
However, each stack of poison reduces enemy poison resists. You might also be able to apply the poisons faster or scale their damage more, or get better poison idols and items.
For scaling DOT vs flat damage, consider:
100% increased damage on a poison hit, would make it do 40 damage for the hit, but over 3 seconds.
Now, say you have passives giving 15 extra damage on hit. the 100% increased damage only gives you 30 extra damage on hit, but deals it all at once.
So in this example, the DOT would kill a boss faster, would kill low HP mobs slower (hence they may have more chance to do damage to you), but would leave you passive points to build tankier or more utility (because you are right that there are not many DOT scaling passives).
Generic damage multipliers in skill trees such as ‘more damage’ aren’t specific to hits, unless saying so. They scale the damage of Dots as well.
Thanks body, how would I find it without you, nothing said about it in the game (no descriptions). For me “more dmg” sounds like when a character hits monsters. So if an ability deals more dmg it deals more DOT as well, correct? A few months ago I learned from the Last Epoch Wiki about bleeding, that only “increased physical dmg”, “DOT” and “increased damage” buff the bleeding DOT.
Hit damage and Ailment damage are not related. Each Stack of an ailment has a specific bse damage, which then scales with their appropiate damage types.
As you said for bleed it’s: Physical Damage, Damage over Time, Physical Damage over Time and generic global modifier, that do not specify.
The Hit that applies an ailment generally does not matter, unless specifically stated otherwise.
For the example of your initial post: Puncutre does have a “stronger” bleeding mechanic. If you apply any bleed stacks with puncture they do last 30% longer baseline.
Generally, if a skill does more damage, this does not affect the ailment it applies, but there are alot of Skill Tree Nodes that do affect Ailments.
So besides the actual damage scaling of an ailment there are more thigns you can do to scale ailments: The rate of application (how often you can hit the target in a certain amount of time) and the number of stacks applied per hit (you can apply multiple stacks of any ailment with ONE hit).
So the combination of damage scaling, attack rate and how many stacks you apply per hit does make ailments scaling very very strong and viable throughout all parts of the game.
Thank you for the detailed response. I understand mechanic of it. Its like once vs over time. I am playing bow bleeding DOT. After your and a guy above suggestions, I have two different bow attacks “Flurry” and “Puncture” I shred resistances and I get bloodthirst stacks to make bleed chance higher and then I use flurry with bleeding buffs it works. However, there is no splash damage only a single target. Games like Diablo3 Path of Exile give us one active damaging skill and 4 - 5 others (buffs) which help to keep that active skill playable.
Thanks! I agree with you that I can apply as many bleed stacks as higher chance I have of it . Like if I have 400% to apply bleed on hit its 4 stacks, I understand it, however if I have more hit damage for stack applied it doesn’t affect the DOT dmg, because all my equipment is about damage over time or increased physical damage or just increased damage or attack speed. There are no space to craft any added damage, its useless having more damage for stack applied especially for DOT build. It seems like Dot can only be as a support to deal more hit damage. So if I mix them, there is no crit chance and crit multiplier. Thanks!
Also bleeding damage is a damage over time and it deals over its 4 second, we have to stay alive those second, hence DOT builds require more protection, hence higher defensive crafting affixes. I saw a video in YouTube how players deal over 1M damage to monsters with crit multiplier. I can do only 15k as a maximum DOT dmg and every part of my equipment is about damage over time and physical dmg. Thanks
DOTs tick no matter what. With every build you need to hit the enemy but DOTs still tick if you need to move out of harms way while a direct hit build can’t hit at said time. If you onlay do 15k DOT dmg something feels odd about it but I can’t tell without more informations on the build and setup as well as the levelrange you are in.
I understand that you maybe dislike the Ailment System in LE.
It’s certainly very different from alot of similar games. But ailments in LE are not weak, trust me.
If you want to scale ailments you are more going for attack/cast speed and %increased damage instead of flat added damage.
Flat added damage is relatively rare anyway and you can still mix and match ailment and hit build.
DoT is definitely not “only support” damage. Try to build more around it and you will see how strong ailments can be.
It all comes down to your build, for DoT build you defintiely need some time to ramp up damage, but when you have to move you still deadling damage, which then leads to being mechanically more tanky, since you can move while still dealing some damage.
With fully fleshed out DoT build you can reach several thousands of damage per tick from DoT’s too. The 1 million+ damage you saw was most likely either a bug or something that got fixed.
Hi all!
I’m glad there’s a topic on DoT because I have some questions as well.
However, your posts have helped me a lot so far and I’m very thankful.
The way I’ll ask my questions might be redundant from the previous answers but don’t get me wrong, I read the entire topic several times, doing my best to understand
Also, as my computer is not good enough to play the game correctly, I apologise to not have testing everything I’m gonna ask before posting
- How do Damage over Time’s base damage interact with Skills’ base damage?
I tried to build a Marksman based on Bleed Damage with Multishot’s Giant Slayer node (All arrows can hit the same target but each arrow deal 80% less damage)
I wanted to bypass its drawback while getting the benefit to inflict Bleed unchanged damage with all arrows at once, thinking that the -80% dmg wouldn’t interfere in the DoT damage scaling.
I was sorely mistaken.
On the dummy:
-Multishot Bleed dmg without Giant Slayer: around 40 per tick (might be more, can’t remember the number very well tbh)
-Multishot Bleed dmg with Giant Slayer, dummy hit by 1 single arrow: 6 per tick (I could never forget that number though)
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Then I’ve given up the idea until recently, when I imagined a Bleed Dancing Strikes build.
Assuming my experimentations, the stacks gained from Rhythm node should increase its Bleed damage as well, shouldn’t it? -
If I add +5 Melee Phys Dmg on my weapon, will my Bleed damage inflicted by Dancing Strikes be increased?
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As DoT has base damage (53 for Bleed) and all skills have their own base damage, will Bleed damages from Dancing Strikes be different than inflicted from Shurikens?
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Does Damage Penetration from a skill node (48% Phys Penetration from Shuriken’s node Weighted Projectiles for example) modify bleed damage it inflicts?
They generally don’t interact at all with each other.
I have no experience with Multishot as a ailment Build, maybe @XLVI_carpo or @TriKster can help here, i know they dabble alot with Ailment Marksman.
Rhythm Buff gives global damage, which does benefit ailments.
Ailment stacks however do snapshot your stats, when you apply them, so you need to ramp up the rhythm and then applying ailment stack to let them all benefit from the full stacked dmg.
No
No. The only thing that scales up ailment’s differently when comparing two skills would be the attribute damage bonuses, since the ailmetns inherent damage bonuses form attributes.
But if you compare two skills, that don’t have any inherent other ailment bonuses(like Serpent Strike or Puncure), they will do exactly the same dmg
EDIT: Penetration Part scrapped
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Not in any way.
Base damage is different to increased/more damage stats. The base damage is increased by flat damage, then by increased and more damage.
Damage over time has no relation to base damage, but is still affected by increased damage and more damage (in this case less damage).
This is flat damage and not related to DoT
They will only differ if the skill applying it has a specialisation that affects it somehow (for example if multishot has -80% damage, it’s bleeds will be weaker than your auto attack bleeds)
yes, physical resistance penetration affects bleeds, but armour penetration does not
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Yes, any relevant modifier from the applying skill will be inherited by the DoT (or secondary effect). So if you had a skill that had “% increased physical hit damage”, that would not affect the bleed, but if it were a more generic “% increased physical damage”, that would buff the bleed damage (which is why Multishot’s Giant Slayer node has such a brutal effect on applied bleeds).
Assuming the phys pen doesn’t say “hits penetrate” or “melee/spell/etc penetration”.
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I really have to thank all of you for your quick and relevant answers.
Although the mechanic is now much clearer, I’m not fond of it because it makes things more tough to understand imo.
I’d prefer either:
-DoT scale entirely with the skill which procced it, for example if a skill scales with melee damage, so does the DoT inflicted by it
-Nodes in a skill’s tree modify the skill exclusively; unless a node explicitly says that using this skill have an impact on other types of damage like DoT or it’s a Global modifier node
As skills and DoT have their own base damage, I completely agree that specific modifiers interact only on specific mechanics, like Added Melee Damage only boosts Melee skills and not the others including DoT
However, a node that boosts a skill, which has no direct link on DoT Base damage, boosts DoT as well like Multishot’s Giant Slayer or Shurikens’ Weighted Projectiles nodes which makes no sense for me considering my former paragraph.
I agree it is confusing, but compared to DoT in games like Path of Exile, Last epoch is way more fun IMHO.
This not being the case means that you have harder choices in what passives, items and skill nodes will synergise with your DoT build. Again, this seems to work better than just aiming to stack raw stats.
But, the current state of the game will mean that not every skill is viable to stack DoT’s effectively. Eg. in general Acolyte has easier access to DoT skills/passives/items than rogue. As another eg: crit necromancer builds have way better item and passive options than DoT necro builds, so DoT necro builds currently have to work much harder to find synergies.
Really? I’m not sure how you work that out, the Rogue has so many passives that add bleed or poison chance, there are quite a few idols that give her poison/bleed chance and many skills (possibly even every skill) have poison/bleed/ignite chance or conversion on them.
I would have said that the Rogue has the easiest access to some form of DoT in the entire game.
I guess what @grimlock9999 wanted to point out is that Lich has a very huge variety how to build DoTs. Other classes have also good ailment support but only few pure DoT skills.
Lich has necrotic DoT skills that can be build completely without ailment support from bleed, fire or poison.
- Drain Life
- Hungering Souls
- Wandering Spirits
- Spirit Plague
- Infernal Shade
… all are DoT skills.
Rogue only has Hail Of Arrows as a DoT skill. But Rogue has a lot of ailment support on skills.
I like to devide these type of DoT builds into Ailment and pure DoT skill builds. They play differently and need different gear. With ailments you go for ailment chances and attack speed. This is not necessary for a Lich that can apply non stackable DoTs with certain skills.
Of course it’s also possible to combine ailments with DoT skill as they sometimes support each other.
But if somebody would ask me “What is the typical DoT class in LE” I’d point to Lich as well.
I really don’t like DoT skills, they can’t hit so they can’t proc anything outside of their own tree, they can’t hit so they can’t crit, they can’t hit so they can’t leech, they can’t hit so they can’t get back life on hit, they also, as far as I’m aware, aren’t affected by any cast or attack speed.
Lich is a good example of a classic DoT class, but so is the Rogue. They dip their weapons in poison & stab the #### out of the target! Magic isn’t the only route to “classic DoT class”.