Currency to respec passives and mastery

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I have been really hesitant about responding to threads lately. Mostly because for some reason people with the community tester tag seem to be getting a lot of hate for no reason.

There are those think us to be of a hive mind. This can be further from the case. There have been times were I will have a vastly different opinion than those that are also part of the program. I feel a lot of the lashing out it completely unwarranted.

That being said. A major part of the vision that EHG has for Last Epoch is class identity. While the masteries are subclasses that are essentially their own class. In “my” opinion freely swapping out masteries would lose the flavor and importance of the class choice.

In any game with classes you can’t make one class and then swap that class to something else. That would require you to start as that class.

Ofc you can make an argument of they could have a penalty or a cost bu then there would be people who think that cost would be too much. Then where would that end?

What is the current system hurting? Yeah qol is nice sometimes. But people are also want things for little investment.

I believe investment is what ties you to that character. I play a varying amount working 2 jobs a family yt channel and other business ventures. So I like qol sometimes.

Hot swapping masteries I think would kind of lose a bit of the identity.

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Closing thread for 24 hours.

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This topic was automatically opened after 24 hours.

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‘Rare item consumable drop’

What are you going to do with your nerfed bird build? delete them? leave them to rot?

Personally I don’t care about what others do, if you want to spend 10 hours rerolling then you can. I would prefer to do other things if possible

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I think we are conflating different ideas.

Releveling a new character is not the only way to preserve build identity. I absolutely think build identity is core to an ARPG experience that doesnt steer too much to the acardy side (aka D3). But I also agree with OP in that time cost (i.e. relevelling a character) is not the only way to impose cost in build alteration. Other resources, such as gold cost (if gold remains of value), item cost, etc can all be viable ways to preserve build identity.

The only question is how “cheap” is this currency that OP has in mind? For example, if there is a token that allows a full respec of the character including mastery for 2mil gold, would OP be happy with that? Or he will complain that he can probably level 2 - 3 new chracters to endgame in the time required to farm 2mil gold?

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“Build identity” is not my main concern. Yes it is a part of it, but not the “main” thing.
(Build identity is already watered down a little bit with the current skill system, not as much as D3, but still)

For me it’s more “class identity”. While in the current system we are allowed to put passives into other mastery trees and also being able to obtain access to some of that masteries active skills. The Mastery Bonus and Exclusive Skills are somehow “sacred” (not trying to make a pun here) to me. When developing my char and coming to “the decision” which mastery i should choose, it should be a really really important decision. And that is the case atm, which i really really like.

You proposed “2 million gold” is an astronomical amount i would say, but still it does take away the “sacredness” of those mastery bonuses/exclusive skills for me personally.

On top of that, if you begin with being able to respec that, there will arise the next debate, on how much “worth” is this respec. And then we can very quickly fall into a realm were people arguing about making it easier. And all of the sudden we reach the point, where some poeple argue, why have a respec cost at all. I simply don’t want that.

That is a very excellent point. We must weight time vs ressources. For some people one will be more valuable than others and even ressources needs to be farmed/grinded, depending on how rare you make them.

While being not exactly on-topic: I would much rather have one or multiple systems helping with leveling new alts, after reaching certain milestones with you first character.
Some people, me including did make some suggestions here

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For passives, you can already choose to respec all of your passive points for a currency: Gold.

I’d like to see an option to just ‘unlearn all’ on the respec NPC, so that I can just pay the lump sum instead of tediously unlearning every passive.

If you were talking about Specializations for Skills, I can see why it would be interesting, but it’s usually not difficult to run around with a single skill at half points, and re-leveling it doesn’t take so long that I think you’d need a currency specifically for it.

If they wanted to implement something, You could put in an ‘overflow’ exp bar, where skills would continue to gain experience and grant respec points for that skill.

For Mastery, I understand the reason they want to lock in the choice on a per character basis. As Rimed said, it’s class identity. The first 20-25 Levels are building up to the ‘real’ class choice, when you pick your mastery.

Personally, I don’t like re-levelling with multiple characters of the same class. Even going from 0-25 just for the mastery is a pain to me, because nothing changes.
Every quest is the same.
Every dialogue option is the same.
Every NPC is the same.

If they were to add ANY option, I’d like to be able to start a second character of the same class at the same point I chose my mastery last time. So if I was level 25, then it starts at 25, with all previous quests done.
Note: I’m not actually advocating this be added, but it’s about the only option for Mastery’s I could see myself enjoying.

Some people are fine with repeating the process multiple times. That’s great for them, and they can enjoy it. I personally don’t find it enjoyable to repeat the same task without variance.

I also dislike watching the same movie multiple times, or read the same book multiple times. If the story is truly gripping, I can immerse myself and do it. If it’s terrible I literally CANNOT force myself to. I have 2 novels which I’ve read once, and swore never to read again because I hated every minute of it.

Conversely I’ve read The Hobbit by JRR Tolkien at least 10-12 times. I can read, and re-read that classic and enjoy it every time. But The Lord of the Rings I’ve read the first book 8-9 times, the second 4-5, and the third twice. I just can’t keep pushing through the content.

For a video game, it’s extremely difficult to satisfy my requirements for replayability, because most games want you to keep playing. The story can only bring it so far, and the content usually isn’t immersive enough to keep me there. The endgame is ‘grind X until Y gear is acquired’ or even ‘Grind X till you get Y. Then Grind Y till you get Z. Then go back to X+1 and repeat’.

For MMO’s, it’s the people I play with. I can run the same mindless content a hundred times if I’m doing so with a group of people I like.

As far as Beta-only options go: I believe other people have stated in other posts why this is a bad idea.
No matter how well you phrase it, no matter what information is given, people react poorly to a perceived ‘loss’ of functionality that they have been used to. Adding an option to respec mastery in the Beta would add the perception that it will remain there in Live, even if that’s not true.

TLDR: You can use Gold for Passives, Skills can be retrained with Time anyway, so why add an item you have to farm, and Mastery’s should be a Lock’n’Load option that you can’t change.

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no you want people to HAVE to be forced to reroll a whole new character for making potential mistakes because YOU feel its necessary for some reason.

‘Class identity’ come on get real

its perfectly reasonable according to you to have to restart a 96 Paladin because you didn’t pick Forge Guard 3 weeks prior and now you want to switch.

I don’t care what you do, I don’t care if you want to reroll constantly and never make any real progress…thats on you but not for me I want the option to switch my Mastery at a cost and its ridiculous to expect anyone else to not want to do the same

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I understand the Role-Playing appeal of such a “sacred choice” but what if for lore sake, we have a mini quest you need to do before you can pay 2mil gold for the token I suggested? :stuck_out_tongue: Would that balance things off for you?

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Why do you quote one single sentence out of context, that is really unfair, just saying.
The thing you quoted was refering to the endless debates that follow after making respec available. Wanting to make it easier and easier and easier.

Your attitude and approach towards my opinion is really hostile. Isn’t it just enough to state your own opinion? And not try to devalue any of my viewpoint with stuff like

‘Class identity’ come on get real or its ridiculous to expect anyone else to not want to do the same

We are already going down the same route here, why the thread was closed for 24 hours.

Hm not sure, it’s not so much “lore sake” for me. The main issue for me is, if you make it possible in the first place, it takes away alot of the weight, regardless how astronomical high the respec costs are.

I still would prefer being able to re-level additional chars very fast/efficiently through some other additional game systems.

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“I want this! I want that! I don’t care what you want!” That is exactly the behaviour you complain about in the same post. I don’t see you making any valid point besides the fact that you think your opinion is worth more than others.

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Because what I want doesn’t affect you, what you want does affect me

No I suggested there should be a respec items like a consumable book that is a rare drop

Easy way out on this forum, when someone doesn’t agree they are hostile

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Everything that anyone wants affects everyone. There’s no such thing that some wants affect one way and not others.

You can disagree. You just have very poor choice of words when you disagree. He already quoted those poor choice of words of yours “get real”, “ridiculous” - anyone who disagree with you is out of touch? Anyone who disagree is being ridiculous?

I share the same view as you on this matter but I didn’t need to resort to your kind of language. Let’s all have a civil discussion without name calling.

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