Yeah, they’re both interesting ideas. How would you deal with items that drop with affixes on them? Would the pre-existing tiers count towards the limits imposed by your ideas?
It was a joke, based of the view/belief/postulate that we feel that others who agree with us are more intelligent compared to people who disagree us. And for once, it wasn’t sarcastic, but it might not have been as funny as it sounded in my head.
Ultimately, yes. Also @doombybbr has a point where the RNG is the potential for a negative thing compared to other games where it’s a potential for a positive thing, which is a very big thing. @Sarno
I don’t like comparaison with PoE. The two were design differently.
Pointing what you like and dislike in each is relevant.
But compare fraction of each is unrelevant.
Yes both are RNG, but that’s not all. The difference in materials needed and the way it functiion make the frequency different (for exemple).
It is a big point for casual gamer:
-> in LE if I am lucky I will (or just dream of) get perfect gear on my main charater
-> in PE I will never because I can’t loot enough material
The system of limit craft depending of unstability is the same as minor fracture.
In fact as result, the item will stop at some T18 or less and not T20. it will be marked as unusable at hight lvl, so it’s the same as breaking… You lose your so value base item with perfect roll and good affix…
I am not against remove destructive fracture and keep only minor frecture, but I don’t really see the difference.
In both case, if you are at the point where only perfect is fine, you lose your base in both case.
For me it’s part of the concept, and base is consider as crafting material. So the need to find a good base is very important.
That why, I think, there is so much way to get them:
-> gamble
-> loot filter will come 
-> benediction from monolith that give you more chance to get item for specific slot.
Before changing all the system, I want to see of well this one could go, because it’s different from other and feel better for me in different point as frequency, way to get material, and fun.
That’s my point of view.
I want to still go the way of the dev,s and try to improve it with them.
Perhaps we can propose more way to find good base item for crafting?
The overwhelming majority does - the highest levels of stimuli and engagement is created through random intervals and random reward sizes for humans and many other animals. Look up Skinner Box.
However, I think the craft system should improve. At least the instability should be removed, because that increases the percentage of fractures more than it should be, as Boardman21 mentioned in the clip.
I think the loot filters arrival will silence many critics.
As it stands now, pain in fracturing a base or losing a rare affix is exacerbated by the amount of tedium required to find them.
Best statement in this thread.
Didn’t understand at all…
crafting RNG (in all game)= chance to win something at a certain cost or just lose the said cost.
Chance for “negative” is always here…
That the same even if the base item did not “break”. The simple difference is that the base item is part of the cost and the best item crafted if sucees is part of the win.
You are correct, mathematically they are the same - does not matter.
However, without going off on some philosophical/psychological tangent, it is simply the way in which the system shows a potential for a negative result rather than showing the potential for a positive one instead and how we as humans interpret this. If we were robots (or Mensa candidates) then its irrelevant which way but we are flesh and blood and dont react to absolutes (and other things) well.
Oh crap… please let this not start another off topic discussion. 
At the risk of going off topic,
Is easier than you may think.
But getting back on-topic, as much as certain people may not like it, you absolutely need to take into account the emotional reaction of the player into account, regardless of what the maths says.
second best comment in this thread.
too late!
Crafting to me is more like what Grim Dawn offers. You find recipes, and the items value/potency is proportionate to the items required to fulfill that recipe.
If you manage to find all the items necessary to create the item, you get the item.
Nothing explodes in your face.
This game’s “crafting” isn’t crafting to me. Its gambling. I don’t like gambling.
Pretty much. I don’t particularly like the current state either.
But hey… lets see what the Devs make of all these comments… My feeling is that there is a bigger picture related to gear progression/drop rarity/drop rates/gambling/crafting & trading with each having some impact on the other. While I am sure a specific component like crafting has things that can be improved, they all need to be massaged together and thats what I think many people don’t realise or consider.
The only people who do have this view are the Devs and I am willing to leave it up to them once I have had my say/feedback moment. If they release a good solution, everyone is happy. If not, and are willing to try again based on feedback, then the game can only get better and we can all have more enjoyment playing it.
Hi. I wanted to come in and share a crafting experience I had yesterday. I had managed to make this beauty.
Now, I know the base is meh/terrible, but I’ve been wanting to make a necrotic caster, and that’s a ‘good’ stat stick since I have no magic items really lol. Anyway, it dropped with three other 3+tier affixes, one being a t5, so I only had to do a few crafts! And it had ‘good’ usable stats (for a specific few build types of course) but the point is I wanted to make a t20 item. I just wanted to. That was my goal after reading a lot of this thread in particular. And the heightened emotional response I ‘felt’ was somewhat invigorating. As I grew closer to hitting that t20, my heart rate increased a bit (though not quite tachy) with every push of that crafting button. And when it came to doing just that, I cannot explain how cool it felt to finally make this after so many failed attempts. I actually shouted “Yes!” and scared the shit out of my partner who was on their caster shaman lol. Then I realized it was actually a t21. (Now I’m probably tachy)
Now, this is the first time I’ve felt this. I have felt the crushing heartbreak and sometimes alt+f4 emotional response many, many more times. Just wanting to state this. Mileage may vary of course. That is RNG.
But now that I’ve had time to think about most of my epoch time, I’ve tried to reflect on it as a whole from my personal experiences in the game, and I think I can say this: The way the item building in this game currently goes does indeed ‘feel’ more like gambling than crafting, in terms of… well, terms. Terminology is something many on this forum are clearly versed and passionate about. I believe gambling better describes the ‘crafting system’, but I think it only affects specific parts of the crafting process.
If I find an item with a good base and a few usable affixes, I know it can be a ‘good’, usable item! But, not likely a ‘great’ item. Great item’s only come from items with great bases and more than a few usable affixes. The way the system works now, the more affixes you have to put on your item, the higher your chances of fracturing it. And I’ll say this: If any item is fractured, regardless of the fracture tier, it can only be a ‘good’ item at best. It will never ‘feel’ like the best you can get, because you aren’t seeing (at minimum) 4 sets of t5 affixes. But then I ‘feel’ like it would still be a great item, just not the greatest I could get. Which means the item chase continues or I settle.
I put a lot of time into the game (Yes, not like a lot of you, I concede) but this has been my only t20+, and it’s due to how difficult it is to get that craft you ‘want’. Some have said time spent in game should reward said item after X amount of time. I don’t agree fully with that, but it doesn’t matter, it’s what they ‘feel’ they are due after a certain time frame invested.
I know everyone has many varying views on this, but personally I think it’s been worth it for me. I’ve enjoyed the game, had some frustrations and even some chuckles. This crafting system has given me more emotional immersion than any I can think of, and I feel strange saying that. Hmm. Anyway, I keep the fact this is still pre-launch and they have made good decisions regarding when they will release, so I hope this offers a little insight, as I was somewhat on the fence about the crafting system myself. But I think it’s great. Still gambl’y, but great. I understand why some would rather not have that ‘feeling’ while playing the game.
“You lucky lucky bastard”
The life of Brian, Monty Python.
Great comments.
Some people enjoy this kind of experience.
Some men hire women to step on their balls (repeatedly).
Some people dislike this kind of experience.
Some men, though I’d wager ‘most’ men don’t lol.
This response is acceptable, and to be honest, I was tired, but had energy to clean the house a bit as I fumed. Hate that, but only at the time. I do enjoy this sort of pain I suppose. Really wanted some of those items to work. Still could do without the pain, but! lol
e: grammar
There are abundant opportunities for disappointment.
I’m just not a fan of any of these disappointing circumstances setting you back.
For that kind of kick in the stomach I just take my favorite pimped out ship into null sec space in EvE online.
Skinner boxes may be a thing, but last epoch is more comparable to one that shocks you when you try to eat the food.
No, it randomly shocks you once you’ve eaten too much food.
I could probably do with that IRL…
