Resist currently works in a way where your resisting does not actually resist anything. At 75% resist i am taking 0 bonus damage. When enemies damage scales absurdly a 60% dmg from endurance reduction means nothing when my enemies can scale into the hundreds of %damage. So each stack of dot no longer does the measly damage. Add to that enemies can apply damned and marked for death (-20% resist ). Means your gettjng torn to shreds.
By adding a defensive layer that both reduced amount of stacks taken and reduced said damage further, the added resist layers would mitigate the absurd scaling enemies get. Result would as such be more fair. Spoiler: being forced to take ward aint a solution.
To clarify, because you mention getting torn to shreds from missing 20% resistance: Resistances in Last Epoch do not work like many other games. The reason for this is that enemies have passive resistance penetration based on area level, up to 75%. Because enemies will at level 75+ fully penetrate your resistances, it means the game is actually balanced around having 0 effective resistance. The result of this is that missing resistance is much less harmful. Being at 50% resistance in Last Epoch instead of 75% means you’re taking 25% more damage as enemies penetrate 75% resistances bringing the result to to -25%.
In other games, being at 50% resistance instead of the cap (75%) would mean taking 100% more damage than the 75% resistance damage is balanced against. the higher the resistance cap is, the more each point of missing resistance matters. In Last Epoch, each point has the same weight as the next, and last point.
I would say we first need to set the baseline here though, otherwise this won’t reach anywhere.
What sort of content are you talking about? Which corruption level hence?
And… is it hence solely meant to push - the already ridiculous amount of corruption builds reach - simply further?
Because personally in ‘reasonable’ reaches of content I have never run into that issue yet where DoT becomes a big problem.
Oh, we know that specific ‘other game’ there which that statement holds true
And this is something which I find utterly amazingly managed from your side, it causes the numbers to actually have meaning to a 1 to 1 ratio rather then having to handle percentile amounts as a baseline math-issue before the actual work of finding out what your defense mechanism do.
Kudos there for the well-placed implementation of that system.
Potato potato. You’re still taking 75% less damage with capped resist. If that’s unimportant to you I don’t know why you’re then asking for yet more resists.
If only there were a way to cleanse ailments, then this horror might end!
Or we could massively increase the stat/affix pressure which is already a challenge to unreasonable/impossible levels just so that you can avoid taking one single affix which doesn’t even have to be above t1 so you can sealed easily so it doesn’t even take up an affix slot!
Devs in general very rarely like double dipping, GGG reworked ailments to remove double dipping yet you’re wanting EHG to add double dipping on multiplicative DR?
Hello Kain thanks for reply. Yes i am aware of how it works. But i do not play like many people, as i lean towards dodging and spacing my enemies as glass cannon. Aka i do not have room for defensive layers on my build. I do not see many players on the forums advocating for such a playstyle. Endurance, hp, ward, block, fraility, glancing blow, are all good and all. But they are in many ways BORING.
Many players including myself, like to run around and dodge attacks and space out hits. Why i complained repeatedly about enemies and mechanics that can hit you anyware. No projectile should be able to hit you with lock on. For us, dots, specifically poison and some cases ignite. Double dibbiting (as others coined it above), would allow a higher level of skilled gameplay. Yes i could just do what pps on maxroll said stack resist, stack endurance, take ward on hit, use belt to remove dot, use 20% amulet, use heart to convet X% of mana to ward, use the armor woven flesh with low health … i just fell asleep…
Stats in this game are about flexibility. Do people need to take 75% resist, and then cap all resists to 75% with this suggestion? No. Would they? Most likely cause … do what people tellthem to. No fun allowed.
Edit: wrong item named
Dont know, maybe j am just to selfish, and want to play in a way that lets me have fun
If you’re taking damage from a ground effect, that is a result of mispositioning, not build, no? I can’t think of any ground effect dot that can’t be avoided off the top of my head.
If you’re taking damage from an ailment, these are always applied by taking some sort of a hit - meaning it’s not unavoidable damage, it’s part of the damage from the originating hit, just dealt over time.
There’s definitely things that are meant to have defenses to help mitigate, and there’s things you’re meant to use positioning to deal with - these types of attacks are mostly telegraphed.
Build planning and adjustment is an intended part of the game - not just offensively. It’s an important part of the depth in theorycrafting to strike the right balance between offense and defense, and do so in such a way that depends on the particular build. So while I do understand that they can be boring in use, their interest driver is in theorycrafting rather than play.
There certainly is “unavoidable” damage, but again, this is because build planning, thus choice, is intended as a significant part of the game. This is unlike say, a souls-like, which is almost entirely about mechanical execution. Having unavoidable damage means it’s another angle to take into consideration when planning. How will you survive it, and recover from it? There’s different answers to these questions, which again is there to offer depth to theorycrafting, and making characters more unique, with deeper interactions. In other words, a significant focus is on choices made, rather than mechanical skill.
That being said:, mechanical skill isn’t ignored either. With 1.1, we are introducing an Evade mechanic, which will certainly help lean into your preferred playstyle.
Actually, I find quite often the answer is no. Because of how our resistance system works, as previously explained, other defense options can actually offer more value than finishing getting resistances to cap. If you have to chose between being at 50% resistance, or having 30% increased health - the health is generally actually the better choice. Because many players are more familiar with resistances in other games, they will gravitate towards capping resistances, but I see as players have been around a while, they start promoting not to be concerned about capping resistances, and that other options can offer more value.
Actually that opens up a question which I have. Given that and the dodge mechanic seen coming up in 1.1… will this aspect be reduced generally? Is it more of a test to find the ‘sweet-spot’ for how far in the spectrum you want to go? Or are already things planned to adjust it in others ways to keep this aspect ‘alive’ as a integral part of the game?
I personally find it a very enjoyable thing to be forced to have at least ‘some’ defensive measures, causing play-time for gear-acquisition to be an important part rather then ‘solely’ being able to beat the game based on personal skill, a mixture of both so to speak.
I would say not really, no. Evade still has a cooldown, and does not provide iframes. Defenses will still be just as important as ever. Evade offers new mechanical option to help you escape abilities that are meant to be avoided, rather than damage that is intended to be mitigated.
Thanks for the quick answer there!
And that’s something I’m very glad to hear since it enforces to keep a basic balancing in the game for the future since that minimum taken damage will stay to be an aspect, hence I can expect the needed skill-level to beat ‘core content’ - as I like to describe it - to not go up in a degree that only quite skilled players can deal with it. On the other hand allowing aspirational content to still enforce a much higher skill level. Definitely looking forward to seeing how the implementation and feel of the dodge mechanic will be.
Slightly disapointed no i-frame on dodge. Depending on how it is done i suppose i will exploit it same way i did with slide casting on a black mage in ff14 online, depending on how it makes the player move. I would prefer for it to act as an instant dash towards a direction, so that i could que it moment my spell cast ends. As a lot of times when i play and use a spell like ghost flame, disentegrate etc, the movement seems to be wonky (may be a latency issue in online, not tested it in offline).
It is true that very few dots / hits are directly unavoidable. The problem is not them 1:1. Many cases in monolith or arena that a combination of events on screen which you can not control lead to you being locked in place, which is what leads to being killed. One of the culprits, is the lack of proper way to build stun immunity, that in off itself is one reason people avoid glass cannon builds and build for defenses anyway. I recommend you read over the post on another thread on this topic, why stun is bad. That thread will answer that question better then i could.
Short answer to save you time of reading. You can do your best to out position enemies and dots, and ground effects, but when you die, its because you got stunned out of a movement skill either before or after begining to move, resulting in such a situation where you can not avoid said dot or ground effect and get killed. This is a byproduct of movement skills themselves not being an i-frame, why spells such as profane veil being considered god tier as it lets you dodge mid movement.
Eg: i see enemy cast a dot, i try to run away, off screen enemy (ice wolf) jumps on me, i get stunned. Enemy uses a dot on me while i am swarmed. Even if i have high ward., high endurance, hjgh armor, that dot now is unavoidable because i am being stun locked. Most of the deaths i think i had from dots where in combination of enemy moving on me (sand worm looking things as example, teleporting lock on snake assassins, those enemies that spawn under the ground during a charge the beacon right on you [same problem as spin ice projectiles on ice orobos, they spawn directly on you some times])
There are other situations where dots are unavoidable as they are fired directly in front of you in the direction where your moving, and if your attacking or let go of mouse you cant get out in time. The poison and fire destroy the poison /fire. They fire 3, sometimes they may also be psudo off screen. I stepped into one with 1 toe and died instantly, was almost meme worthy. These ones can kill so fast your eyes may not react to it.
Are other ones also. But that is something yall should look at seperatly. Off screened is something people provided feedback on before. I suggest yall read the thread
Decided to meme around so edit this. This build demonstrates what i mean. Is it strong? Yes. Is it going to be fun to play? Hell no. Most boring build in game. But ye, strong it is
Then you won’t be using the defensive stats that you’re requesting on your gear anyway & you’d be relying on your “leet gaming skillz” to not die.
Defensive affixes are suffixes, offensive are prefixes so you have plenty of space to fit them on your gear.
And yet even moar resists aren’t?
No it wouldn’t (also, it’s dipping, not dibbiting). You say you want “higher level of skilled gameplay” but what you’re asking for is for the punishment for not displaying those “higher levels of skill” to be relaxed.
Yup.
LE doesn’t really do skill queueing like that (sadly), so I’m not sure how that would work in the current game.
Yes, but if you didn’t neglect your defenses, you probably wouldn’t have been stunned. From the game guide, “at 0% increased stun chance & 0 stun avoidance, non-player hits must deal more than 5% of a target’s max hp to have a chance to stun them”, so if you were stunned, you probably took a reasonably chunky hit.
I do agree that stun feels bad in LE & will be one of the reasons why it’s more of a defensively focussed game than PoE
You may wish to re-write that in legible English, I have no idea what you’re talking about. It sounds like you’re referring to a specific example.
It also kinda looks like you’re just rolled your face over the keyboard & selected stuff at random.
Correct. Souls like means primarily your win or lose comes entirely from I-frames, frame perfect dodges, parries etc. Stats and gear are mostly secondary thing, be and and all is skill
What I was asking for was to make the gameplay more open by opening the ability to build for more specific stats so that if your build is running into a certain problem you could out gear it.
Eg: my movement heavy builds have no issue dodging most enemies, unless it comes from a attack that essentially aim bots you. Giving me the option to scale stun resist would remove those without having to build for other stats. However should an enemy throw a large ground effect, i would die. Hence building in for said resists would remove the issue as, building another 75% resist is easier then having to dedicate all my stats to defensive layers. So aka: I out geared my problem
Let’s say your build is all about pets (beast master as it’s a bit weak). Your main issue is how easy pets die. So you spend all your gear slots making them tankier, and that leaves you with no room for stats for yourself. You now got same problem I explained above. You need to run around to avoid being hit. Hence your main enemy is again dots and ground effects.
Some examples from top of my head. Some of it may be a problem to do with having very little room to work with affixes. 4 per gear is very restricting. Part of the reason people do not play glass cannon. Last epoch support for such styles of gameplay are severely lacking
Then why is he asking to be able to outgear the content to enable" higher levels of skilled gameplay"? Thata’s like asking for nice smooth straight roads with no other traffic so you can drive your Lamborghini a mile to the shops. I don’t think anyone would believe that either.
Maybe with a stat called “stun avoidance” (though HP would be better)?
The HP would be better for that too, especially if you’re displaying the “high level of skilled gameplay” & don’t try to facetank it.
Which prefixes are defensive in nature (apart from the attributes)? There will be some class-specific affixes, certainly, but the vast majority of defensive affixes are suffixes, so they aren’t conflicting with your offensive stats.
If you’re a minion build, why are you not avoiding all the damage by dint of not being close up to the mobs? Surely the “high level of skilled gameplay” for a minion build is “don’t facetank stuff, let your minions do it”?
You’re assuming that if they moved to 6 affixes per slot from 5 (sealed affixes exist, don’t forget) that they’d keep all of the affixes at the same level of stat rather than reduce them by ~50% so you’d be no better off.
Or the “high level of skilled gameplay” just isn’t being displayed.
Also, how does one out-gear an unlimited/infinitely scaling difficulty? If you meet your limit at X corruption so you complain & the devs give you more stat budget (more affix slots or higher values or whatever), you’d then just push your limit back to Y corruption, it wouldn’t actually change anything. This isn’t PoE where the bosses are of a broadly static difficulty (map affixes notwithstanding).
I was providing an example, i dont play minion builds as i find them boring. My first class was necromancer with dreadshade and golems, i then switched due to boredom to teleport shockmet nova movement build, and also warlock ignitveilorb with fissure cooldown spammer.
Minion builds are easy, why i switched, as just pointing my minions to run ahead of me for 40 hours became boring. Why i mentioned above posts (i may be a narcaccist as i am assuming each person reads every post i written, as they build on each other). Moment i switched to such a playstyle i immediatly began noticing this problem.
As to suffixes? Most of them are useless to avoid taking damage on such a build. Only ones some what useful are crit avoidance, less damage taken from crits, cooldown recovery (one i stack the most as i need my traversal skill to deal damage), ward per second and ward retention. None of these are going to stop you from being one shot.
I need on some of these builds as close to 70% cooldown reduction. No room for anything else after i take HP and hybrid health.
No affix on any build will ever prevent you from getting one shot. You seem to fail to grasp that in an infinitely scaling content, you’ll always reach a point where you’ll get one-shot.
Also, ward per second is kinda useless. You have better ward sources.
